rockbox/www/irc/rockbox-20020519.log

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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May 16 22:16:35 2002
--> adiamas (~adiamas@as5300-9.216-194-23-128.nyc.ny.metconnect.net) has joined #rockbox
--- Topic for #rockbox is Does your box rock? http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
--- Topic for #rockbox set by Bagder at Mon May 13 04:46:28
--- You are now known as adi|home
--> Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
<dw|gone> Hell<6C> ppl!
--- dw|gone is now known as dwihno
<Bagder> morning
<dwihno> How are you today?
<Bagder> pretty good
<Bagder> loadsa mails to deal with
<dwihno> "Free XXX"
<dwihno> "Get bigger dick with our magic pills"
<dwihno> "Debt consolidation"
<Bagder> more like "how do I make this work?" kinds
<Bagder> the spams are mostly filtered automaticly
<dwihno> You work as a consultant?
<Bagder> yes
<Bagder> but the mails are mostly about my spare time hacks
<dwihno> what kind of consultant?
<Bagder> embedded, network, unix
<dwihno> Oh
<dwihno> Sounds like a fun job :)
<Bagder> been working for Net Insight the least 2+ years
<Bagder> oh it _is_ a great job
<dwihno> I've been unemployed for almost a year :(
--> Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
<Bagder> ugha
<Linus> uuh
<dwihno> Good morning Linus-dude! :D
<Bagder> hey Linus the rocker!
<Linus> morning d00d!
<Bagder> you're early
<dwihno> Bagder: Yeah, it sucks, but I'm not giving up - I write applications almost every day
<Linus> Yup. Have to go early today
<Bagder> dwihno: that's probably the sane thing to do
* Linus goes for coffee
<dwihno> :-)
* dwihno .equals(sane)
<dwihno> *yawn*
<dwihno> I hate cooking lunch in the morning
<dwihno> <-- did some pretty nice chicken salad
<Linus> what do you guys think we should do about the GDB enabled version of librockbox?
<Linus> and the release version?
<Linus> multiple targets in the makefile?
<Linus> or multiple libraries?
<Bagder> good q
<Bagder> my opinion: multiple targets, the same library
<Linus> OK. next q:
<Linus> should thread.c malloc() the stack, or should we have static stacks for the threads?
<Linus> not a big issue, really. Just thinking.
<Bagder> I doubt that we'll realloc() the stack so a static is slightly better
<Linus> ok
<Linus> we need special compiler flags for some files, like thread.o
<Linus> how do we do that without messing with the dependencies?
<Bagder> that's the downside of all those wildcard things
<dwihno> <-- loves wildcards
<Bagder> the thread.o should have its own line in the makefile, with its own additional flags on the compile line
<Linus> Bagder: indeed
<Linus> What does Make do when thread.o has two targets?
<Bagder> it yells
<Linus> gah
<Linus> So what do we do
<Bagder> thread.o must be removed from the wildcard-generated list
<dwihno> Some shell script generating the makefile's perhaps?
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<Bagder> I bet there is some keyword that allows us to cut out a specific file from the SRC generated list
<Linus> Bagder: Yeah. I guess we have to do that. It's a pity.
<Bagder> SRC = $(filter tread.c, $(SRC))
<Bagder> SRC = $(filter-out tread.c, $(SRC))
<Bagder> rather
<Bagder> btw
<Bagder> Linus: do you know why the Recorder doesn't allow music to be played while charging the batteries?
<dwihno> It doesn't?! :(
<Bagder> at least I haven't been able to make it ;-)
<dwihno> hm
<dwihno> You probably forgot connecting it to the PC ;)
<dwihno> Do you develop using linux or windows?
<Bagder> there is only one ;-)
<Bagder> Linux
<Bagder> and Solaris too actually
<dwihno> okay
<dwihno> USB on solaris?
<dwihno> Did you ever try a BSD variant?
<Bagder> I don't need usb to develop
<Bagder> we have simulators, remember
<dwihno> aaah
<dwihno> the Simulator(tm) :D
<Bagder> yes, I've tried BSD variants
<dwihno> so what did you think?
<Bagder> about what?
<Bagder> BSD?
<dwihno> yeah
<dwihno> and how much of a difference is there between the simulator and the real hardware?
<Bagder> the simulators simulate the "low-level" APIs, so we can write "apps" on them
<Bagder> the BSDs are generally fine, in some areas great, in some not so great
<dwihno> Please go on :)
<Linus> Bagder: Zagor does it all day (listening while charging)
<Bagder> hm
<Linus> I tried just now. What is your problem?
<Linus> You have to push "on"
<Linus> puch and hold
<Bagder> while charging?
<Linus> just like when you turn it on normally
<dwihno> So what linux distributions are you guys using+
<Linus> Red Hat
<Linus> I wanted to install Debian, bit it kind of backfired on me
<Bagder> ah ok
<Bagder> I just didn't press long enough
<dwihno> How about you Bagder?
<Linus> He is an old red hat
<Bagder> once upon the time redhat
<dwihno> /\
<Bagder> source since
<Linus> patched as hell
<dwihno> /\
<dwihno> hm
<dwihno> that's my hat ;)
<Bagder> $ telnet localhost
* adi|home slaps you all with the "be quiet im tring to sleep" stick
<Bagder> Trying 127.0.0.1...
<Bagder> Connected to localhost.
<Bagder> Escape character is '^]'.
<Bagder> Storebror Linux What Hasn't Crashed Yet Soon Will
<Bagder> Kernel 2.4.18 on an i686
<Bagder> login:
<Bagder> :-)
<dwihno> Telnet rules
<Bagder> you tring huh? ;-)
<adi|home> telnet SUCKS
<adi|home> ssh is god
<adi|home> i have issues with plain text
<Bagder> telnet is fine on localhost ;-)
<adi|home> or "here, sniff my password"
<adi|home> bah, humbug
<adi|home> i wouldn't trade the ease of use of scp and ssh for anything
<dwihno> ssh is good
<dwihno> and cute
<Linus> what do we prefer:
<Linus> make DEBUG=1
<Linus> or
<Linus> make debug
<adi|home> make debug
<Bagder> the latter
<Linus> ok
<adi|home> cause its like comparing to "make CLEAN=1"
<adi|home> :)
<Bagder> yeah
<Linus> not really. clean is a target, DEBUG is more like an option
<adi|home> have we reached any sort of decision on how apps/ is going to be set up?
<Linus> debug affects the compiler flags
<adi|home> no, id treat debug as a target too..
<Bagder> adi|home: hehe, not really, but I think we go for all "general" files in the root with target-specific code in subdirs, for now
<adi|home> doing LINUX or SOLARIS .. those id accept at =1
<adi|home> k
* adi|home needs to get back into the swing of things
<Bagder> but I don't know why Bj<42>rn didn't move all the app code from uisimulator to apps
<adi|home> if you want me to just switch everything over i can.. but i don' see a need to yet really
<Bagder> there's no immediate need, no, I just thought it'd be cleaner
<Bagder> when we wanna start building target stuff using the apps
<Linus> Bagder: how do i change CFLAGS in a target?
<Bagder> ehum
<Bagder> you don't
<Linus> Hence my question above
<Bagder> well, in a sane makefile you have a differently named variable for that then
<Linus> and no default rules?
<Linus> Here we go
<Bagder> right
<Bagder> or rather
<Bagder> you'd use different object files
<Linus> oh no
<Bagder> oh yes ;-)
<Linus> Then we are in depoendency hell
<Bagder> not necessarily
<Bagder> DBGOBJS := $(SRC:%.c=debug/%.o) crt0.o
<Bagder> or however you write that kind of stuff
<Bagder> or perhaps not
<Bagder> using default rules really ain't fine here
<Linus> The seldom are
<Bagder> and totally unnecessary since we generate the deps anyway
<Bagder> we can just as well generate the action line too
<Linus> I see the Makefile growing
<Bagder> sure
<Bagder> but it needs to do good
<Bagder> a small bad makefile is worse than a big good one
* adi|home pets the Makefile.. "good makefile.. you grow.. big.. strong makefile.. strong like bull"
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<Bagder> more coffee
<Linus> I would prefer writing "make DEBUG=1" instead of having a more complex makefile/dependency generation
<Bagder> it'll work for now at least
<dwihno> make -f Makefile.debug
<dwihno> :-)
<Bagder> I received a poem by mail this morning:
<Bagder> fooled dad added cable
<Bagder> failed decode doc called aid
<Bagder> official bill baffled
<Bagder> supposed to be almost Haiku, and it is...
<Bagder> hexadecimal ;-)
<dwihno> haha
<Bagder> 00000000 f0 01 ed da da dd ed ca b1 e0
<Bagder> 00000013 fa 11 ed de c0 de d0 cc a1 1e da 1d
<Bagder> 0000002b 0f f1 c1 a1 b1 11 ba ff 1e d0
<dwihno> Writing hexadecimal poetry goes in the top20 of the "what to do on a rainy day" list :)
<Bagder> indeed
--> calpefrosch|work (~calpefros@62.52.174.30) has joined #rockbox
<calpefrosch|work> morning
<Bagder> morning calpe
<Linus> morning Froggy
* calpefrosch|work quacks
--> StarFox (~GatesOfHe@adsl-64-175-110-181.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
* Bagder greets StarFox welcome
<StarFox> hello Bagder
* StarFox is trying out some new themes
<Linus> hi starfox
<StarFox> hello Linus
<Bagder> StarFox: you an Archos owner?
<StarFox> no
<Linus> This is only for club members. :-)
<Linus> haha
<Bagder> hey
<Bagder> there's no rockbox available yet anyway ;-)
<Linus> No, but it's close now
<dwihno> Will the LCD-off feature be in the first releases?
<Linus> Bagder: can you check the makefile changes for me?
<Bagder> the very first release is for the player
<Linus> I haven't written a MAS driver for the Recorder yet
<Bagder> Linus: yes, that makefile looks fine
<Bagder> does it work? ;-)
<dwihno> Ah, okay
<Linus> Good. Zagor will probably have some wierd comments on it :-)
<Linus> Bagder: yes it works :-)
<Bagder> oh he will
<Bagder> Zagor the code police will strike down ;-)
<Bagder> we need to join the rebel forces
* dwihno can hear the "boot sound" in his head: "R-r-r-rockbox - Open Source kickass firmware"
<Linus> Yeah. He's a badass moddafacka Code Cop
* Bagder is scared of the code police force
<StarFox> brb
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<Linus> oops
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<Bagder> hey Zagor_
<Zagor_> hi
--- Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
<Linus> oh no! the police! run!
* Bagder ducks
<dwihno> :D
<dwihno> GOOD MORNING ZAGOR! :D
<dwihno> Zagor: Linus has been here all day long, did you have a sovmorgon? :)
<Zagor> yeah
<dwihno> :-)
<dwihno> Zzzagor ;)
* Bagder is gonna go and have some nice shots now!
<dwihno> Shots?
<dwihno> This early? :)
<Bagder> as in needles
<Bagder> vaccine
--- Bagder is now known as Bagder|gone
<dwihno> Vaccine for what?
<Bagder|gone> I dunno ;-) I'll find out!
<Bagder|gone> I'm going to east africa this summer
<dwihno> Ah
<dwihno> Then I know which vaccine you are getting
<dwihno> Insanity neutralizer ;)
<dwihno> Nobody sane would ever go to africa
<dwihno> All sick mosquitos and rhinos and giraffs... That's scary stuff dude! :)
<Linus> Uganda?
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<Zagor> still alive, bagder? ;)
<dwihno> We are alive
<dwihno> (Paul van Dyk)
<dwihno> :-)
<Bagder> I got away pretty good ;-)
<Bagder> not a single shot
* dwihno gives everybody some newly baked bullar
<Bagder> had them all already ;-)
<Bagder> mainly just Malaria poison needed
* Bagder thinks ispell-complete-word rocks hard
* Bagder detects trouble
<dwihno> find / -type trouble
<Bagder> gaaah
<Bagder> May 17 10:46:22 pm1 named[27762]: exiting (due to assertion failure)
<dwihno> hm
<dwihno> named must not be stopped!
<Bagder> correctomente
<dwihno> What version of named?
<Bagder> wait, gotta fix this first
<dwihno> mkay
<Bagder> weirness
<Bagder> weirdness
<Linus> oh
<Bagder> named starts from inetd mostly
--> elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
<dwihno> fishy
<dwihno> ><))))8>
<Bagder> May 17 10:46:22 pm1 named[27762]: message.c:808: REQUIRE(*rdataset == 0) failed
* Bagder goes debugging
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<Zagor> gah!
* Zagor notes the bjorn.haxx.se http access log has grown to 460 MB since december
<dwihno> oh my god! :/
<dwihno> <-- tries to hide his DOS attack with some vanilla sauce
* Zagor shops for a good log analyzer
<dwihno> Denial of S<>s
<dwihno> We got analog
<Zagor> is it good?
<dwihno> then webalizer
<dwihno> analog is extremely configurable
<dwihno> webalizer produces nice graphs ;D
<Zagor> i'll try analog
<Bagder> I moved lots of files from the sim dir to the apps dir
<Bagder> and made the x11-simulator build again, both versions
<Zagor> nice
<Bagder> updated the activity too with the new paths
<dwihno> Do you have a slogan for the Rockbox project yet?
<Bagder> "its better to rock a box than to box a rock"
<Bagder> :-P
<dwihno> hehe
<dwihno> box a rock?! :)
<dwihno> No fun
<Zagor> we don't need no steeenkin slogan :)
<dwihno> :~(
<dwihno> So what can I contribute with to the project?
<dwihno> ascii art? :)
<Zagor> haha
<dwihno> Seriousley
<dwihno> I want to contribuyte
<dwihno> I can make new games :)
<Zagor> fire away. asteriods is still unclaimed :)
<dwihno> hehe
<dwihno> Tell me about the development environment and the test software you are using :)
<Zagor> have you read the API file?
<dwihno> I have ZERO files
<dwihno> Except from JPEG's ;D
<Zagor> go browse the cvs
<Zagor> http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/cvs.html
<Zagor> 180603 hits in /rockbox/ :)
<Zagor> plus another 30209 in /jukebox/
<dwihno> juckbox :)
<dwihno> On monday I will place my order for a recorder! :D
<Bagder> that's the spirit! ;-)
<dwihno> Oh
<dwihno> I just found out monday is a day off
<Bagder> yeps
<dwihno> Luckily I found out it now, or I would have been here on monday morning :)
<Bagder> http://daniel.haxx.se/hexpoetry/goodies.html
<Zagor> yay!
<Bagder> it seems people keep busy with useful things ;-)
<dwihno> hahaha
<dwihno> mongo :)
<dwihno> baddade blodad collie
<dwihno> fifflade labile olof
<dwihno> haha
<Zagor> we should separate the player and recorder code, and not have everything in apps/ root
<Zagor> icons, bmp, tetris, screensaver etc
<Bagder> true
--> linuxstb (dave@dsl-212-23-31-215.zen.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
<Bagder> hi daev
<Bagder> dave
<linuxstb> Hi - what happenning to the CVS? :-)
<Bagder> haha
<Bagder> we move sources into apps that are meant for target and simulator
<Bagder> to have the uisimulator for simulator stuff only
<linuxstb> I think that's a good thing. When do you think you will be finished?
<Bagder> dunno, we just discussed putting the recorder-specific files in their own subdir in apps
<linuxstb> OK, I'll hang around here and see what happens. I'm still working at the moment, but was distracted by the CVS action.
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<Bagder> hehe
<Bagder> don't expect any more work from my side today, I'm busy elsewhere atm
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<Zagor> i'll be getting the simulator working with player keypad
<Zagor> then I plan to test it on target tonight
<Bagder> right on!
<Zagor> and polish some of the remaining issues like key polling etc
<Zagor> friday candy time
<Bagder> lots of adding and deleting today ;-)
<Zagor> yeah. cvs history is for wimps! :)
<Bagder> we don't want the history, we want the future! ;-)
<Zagor> hrmpf. the simulator doesn't work without lcd_update
<Zagor> who do I yell at? ;)
* Bagder hides
<Zagor> where is sim_lcd_puts defined? it's not in any .h .c. or .s file!?!
<Bagder> magic
<Bagder> its in lcd-x11.c
<Bagder> because it is #define d
<Bagder> so the names in the file don't have sim_ prefixes
<Zagor> where is it defined?
<Bagder> x11/chardef.h
<Bagder> that construction is a bit ugly
<Bagder> but I saw no way around it
<Bagder> sim_lcd_puts should just do lcd_update() by itself
<Zagor> but those defines are the other way. they define lcd_puts, not sim_lcd_puts
<Zagor> i'm confused
<Zagor> ah, oh.. bluearch!
<Zagor> damn, bagder. that's UUUUGLY! :-)
<Bagder> you make it better then
<Bagder> the problem is that it needs *both* lcd systems when simulating the player
<Zagor> explain it to me, what problem are you solving?
<Zagor> hmm
<Bagder> the player simulator uses the recorder-simultor code
<Bagder> for char output
<Zagor> right
<Zagor> gotta go. see you guys later
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<Bagder> bye
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<elinenbe> Under news on the main page there have been no updates for more than 2 weeks. Maybe it is time to place a little updat there ;)
<Zagor> any suggestions?
<linuxstb> I don't know any news, but is it possible to upload some more IRC logs (if they exist)?
<elinenbe> something like "The project is prgessing nicely and we offering a $10,000 (USD) prize in the DSP programming challenge... stay tuned for more information"
<Zagor> hehe
<linuxstb> :-)
<Zagor> that reminds me, i should submit a help request to sourceforge
<linuxstb> What is on the wishlist for DSP programming?
<linuxstb> (apart from ogg)
<elinenbe> wma :)
<elinenbe> just kidding
<elinenbe> how powerful is the DSP?
<linuxstb> I think the only sensible "wish" is uncompressed recording and playback.
<Zagor> pure WAV is a frequent request
<elinenbe> that is something that many people ask for.
<elinenbe> and with the recorder -- pur wav recording
<linuxstb> And it shouldn't be too difficult to program - if you know the hardware.
<elinenbe> is it possible to compile the source and run something on the actual player yet?
<Zagor> i'm working on that right now
<Zagor> having a bit of setup problems, for some reason
<linuxstb> Good luck - that's worth an entry in the news if you succeed.
<elinenbe> well, if you get something working do you think you will upload the compiled firmware?
<Zagor> sure
<elinenbe> how far away do you think you are?
<elinenbe> this is quite exciting.
<Zagor> oh, not far. this is all tested code, it's just some snag
<linuxstb> Changing the subject, I want to implement the mpeg playing API for the X11 simulator tonight...
<Zagor> the problem is my gf is coming over in just over an hour :)
<elinenbe> are the simulators pretty much stable right now?
<linuxstb> ... but am not sure where to put the files.
<elinenbe> well, priorities are priorities
<Zagor> linuxstb: why not in the x11 lib?
<Zagor> directory, i mean
<elinenbe> where do you live? Sweden?
<Zagor> yes
<elinenbe> so, it is 8pm there?
<linuxstb> Zagor: OK, but how should I stop it breaking the win32 simulator and the target?
<Zagor> the irc logs are adiamas' job, btw. i'm not sure why there hasn't been any checkins of those lately
<elinenbe> you should NOT go waste your time with Star Wars. The movie is awul
<elinenbe> awful
<elinenbe> I dont even know if you have it yet
<Zagor> linuxstb: you can't keep win32 working. don't meddle with the target files yet
<linuxstb> Zagor: are you asking me to wait before implementing it?
<Zagor> in target, yes. add it to the simulator only right now
<linuxstb> I thought the target and simulator shared the same code (apps/)?
<Zagor> some of it, yes. make a local copy of you want to test. I'm working in apps right now
<linuxstb> OK - no problem.
<linuxstb> I'll let you get back to your Archos now. Bye.
<Zagor> :) no problem
<Zagor> i can't get the player lcd to work :*(
<elinenbe> I cry with you
<elinenbe> :`(
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<Zagor> ooooh, I'm browsing my archos!
<Zagor> but only with debugf()s :)
<Zagor> anyone alive here, feeling like testing my app?
<Zagor> i'm starting to wonder if my lcd lives at all
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<Zagor> well, gotta go. bye all
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<adi|work> anyone around?
<PsycoXul> no
<adi|work> okay :)(
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**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun May 19 13:32:25 2002