rockbox/www/irc/rockbox-20020528.log

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed May 22 18:38:13 2002

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---	Topic for #rockbox is Does your box rock? http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
---	Topic for #rockbox set by Bagder at Mon May 13 04:46:28
---	You are now known as adi|home
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<elinenbe>	anyone here?
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<Bagder>	morning
<dwihno>	Good morning :)
<dwihno>	<-- has filled the archos with music now
<dwihno>	2 gigs to go ;D
<Bagder>	:-)
<dwihno>	I'm surprised by the good audio quality
<Bagder>	yes, it is pretty good
<dwihno>	My Philips EXP101 is nothing compared to this! :)
<dwihno>	Something I just can't understand is, when I uploaded the new firmware, the boot screen still says 1.26
<Bagder>	what's a EXP101?
<Bagder>	the boot screen first display the ROMed version, then it should change after a few seconds
<Bagder>	to show the one loaded from disk
<dwihno>	Philips Expanium, portable CD MP3 thingy
<dwihno>	hm
<Bagder>	aha
<dwihno>	No way to make the firmware permanent in the ROM? :)
<Bagder>	you wish ;-)
<dwihno>	Still not fully recharged. Strange. I left it overnight, just to copy all my music, and it still isn't full
<dwihno>	This is my fourth MP3 player btw
<dwihno>	Or is it fifth
<dwihno>	Hmm
<Bagder>	gosh
<Bagder>	its my first ;-)
<dwihno>	First I had a RIO 300 with 32+32 megs
<dwihno>	Then I bought a NAPA DAV 309
<dwihno>	Which sucked donkey balls
<dwihno>	Then I got the EXP101
<dwihno>	Then I bought the EXP201 model
<dwihno>	(which was a pity, since the sound quality sucked)
<dwihno>	And now I have the archos, and I'm all happy ;)
<Bagder>	you sure have shopped around 
<dwihno>	Well, I love gadgets, what can I say :)
<dwihno>	My computer: a PII 266, 256 meg RAM, 30+60 gig HD, and a 8 meg ATI gfx board :)
<dwihno>	My TV: probably 14"
<dwihno>	and yeah, my monitor is 15" ;)
<Bagder>	heh
<Bagder>	I have a 21" 
<dwihno>	whoa
<dwihno>	Everything more than 17" is overkill :)
<dwihno>	Unless you use Illustrator, flash, or any other software with 1249 palettes
<Bagder>	you don't think that when you sit in front of this ;-)
<Bagder>	1600x1200
<Bagder>	lots of xterms
<Bagder>	lots of emacs
<Bagder>	its heaven for a programmer
<dwihno>	xxx-emacs :)
<dwihno>	vim = sexy
<Bagder>	... and it shows divx movies pretty good
<dwihno>	But as always, everybody shall use what's comfortable for themselves :)
<dwihno>	what software do you use? mplayer?
<Bagder>	xine
<dwihno>	hm
<dwihno>	isn't mplayer better, faster and more stable?
<Bagder>	not the one I tried
<Bagder>	I got xine to work really fine and then I didn't try around much more
<PsycoXul>	i always end up having both xine and mplayer
<Bagder>	one day I'll try mplayer again
<PsycoXul>	they each have their strong points and oddities
<dwihno>	mplayer = great for pr0n <-- I can vouche for that :)
<Bagder>	dwihno: aren't you trapped in the windows bubble?
<Bagder>	:-)
<dwihno>	Well, in one way, yes
<dwihno>	I need flash, illustrator, indesign, photoshop, distiller and more :/
<Bagder>	poor you ;-)
<dwihno>	But I'm seriousley considering a "linux on fat32"-partition insta ll
<Bagder>	you should simply make a separate partition and install linux on it
<dwihno>	Yeah... That's also a good idea
<dwihno>	The disk is perkele-slow anyways
<Bagder>	yeps
<dwihno>	What dist do you recommend?
<dwihno>	I've stuck to different BSD's the last two years
<dwihno>	And I've grown accustomed to nice packages ready available on CD-ROM
<Bagder>	either go redhat for convenienct, or do debian for "coolness" ;-)
<Bagder>	then use redhat
<dwihno>	I might do that
<dwihno>	But first, I have to blow my nose - feels like there's a gnome inside!
<dwihno>	Damn allergy
<dwihno>	Time for morgonfika. Yeah. Mmm.
*	adi|home slaps dwihno for forcing himself into photoshop instead of gimp
*	adi|home waves his hand at dwihno and says "You like gimp more then photoshop..."
*	adi|home watches dwihno say in a zombie like tone "I like gimp more then photoshop..."
<dwihno>	:/
<dwihno>	I like GIMP
<dwihno>	I really do
<dwihno>	But when I work with photoshop, I work much faster
<dwihno>	Using GIMP to re-save the PNG's for tighter compression is cool tho ;)
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<Bagder>	morning
<Zagor>	morning
<dwihno>	GOod morning, dr. Zagor
<Zagor>	good morning, grasshopper :)
<dwihno>	<-- is doing ASP :) yay!
<Zagor>	heretic
<dwihno>	Which makes your embedded stuff look like gingerbread
<dwihno>	Mmmmmmmmmm. Gingerbread.
*	Zagor pokes PsycoXul. Awake?
<dwihno>	ASP syntax is _SO_ gay
<PsycoXul>	hmm
<PsycoXul>	yeah, hi
<Bagder>	asp? yuck
<dwihno>	Yeah, when a dialect of a language makes difference between how you write the code (linewise), it's gay
<Zagor>	PsycoXul: have you tested the new ata code?
<PsycoXul>	not yet
<dwihno>	Zagor: Do you think you solved the ata_init stuff?
<Zagor>	maybe
*	dwihno crosses his fingers
<Bagder>	so maybe its time to build a recorder app and try too
<Zagor>	yeah, why not. although we don't know if much of anything works on the recorder yet :)
<Bagder>	I know, but the ata stuff should work the same, right?
<Zagor>	well, hopefully...
<dwihno>	<-- listens to some evil shiznat alphaville on his evils0r archos
<Zagor>	Front Line Assembly here
<Bagder>	Re-Work
<dwihno>	My friend who bought a flash based player got green with jealousy when my package arrived yesterday :)
<Bagder>	hahaha
<dwihno>	Win2k doesn't need any drivers to interface with the unit
<Bagder>	well, he can bungy jump with his ;-)
<dwihno>	heh
<dwihno>	yeah :)
<Bagder>	veeeeery useful
<dwihno>	yup :)
<dwihno>	20 gigs of portable music is perverted
<adi|home>	music? music? its supposed to be for music?
<adi|home>	oh sbhit...
*	adi|home deletes his 19.4 gigs of porn
<dwihno>	NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
*	dwihno sos
<dwihno>	sobs
<PsycoXul>	heh
<dwihno>	I'm your faaaather!
<dwihno>	Speaking of perverted stuff, how kinky isn't object oriented basic? :)
<Bagder>	I wouldn't know ;-)
<PsycoXul>	ok so like
<PsycoXul>	it shows the disk label as the first file
<PsycoXul>	heh
<PsycoXul>	and browsing through it is severely broken as far as cursor possition
<PsycoXul>	and the display is kindof funky
<PsycoXul>	but
<PsycoXul>	it works, i can see my files!
<Bagder>	*cool*
<dwihno>	It makes handcuffs, liquid latex and sheep look boring ;)
<dwihno>	YAY!
<PsycoXul>	yeah i can't actualy browse them though
<Zagor>	PsycoXul: coooolers! that means you have a slave disk :)
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<Linus>	Mooo!
<Zagor>	no the browser is kinda broken. the button handling sucks and the display is corrupted :)
<PsycoXul>	i made it into one directory and saw the first two files there and then pressed over and it went to some other dirs in the directory the directory i'm in is in
<Bagder>	hey Linus
<dwihno>	Hell<6C> Lajnus!
<PsycoXul>	heh
<Bagder>	Linus: PsycoXul can see his disk now
<Linus>	Of course he can. It's in the Archos. :-)
<PsycoXul>	but yeah
<Linus>	What was the prob?
<PsycoXul>	the ata code works for me now and thats cool
<PsycoXul>	heh
<Zagor>	Linus: his disk is strapped as slave
<Linus>	Just as we suspected.
<Linus>	Nice!
<PsycoXul>	good job hehe
<Zagor>	this requires some coffee!
<dwihno>	:D
<dwihno>	Celebration!
*	Linus follows Zagor
*	dwihno follows Linus
<PsycoXul>	so yeah
<PsycoXul>	make it browse right and play files and i'll start using it heh
<dwihno>	What model do you have?
<PsycoXul>	studio20
<PsycoXul>	its just a lowely player
<dwihno>	ah, okay
<Bagder>	but that's with a "new" LCD isn't it?
<PsycoXul>	yeah
<PsycoXul>	well the new lcd and the old lcd aren't that much different, mainly their charset as far as i can tell
<PsycoXul>	btw i noticed
<Bagder>	yes it seems so
<dwihno>	Hey, my batteries are finally charged ;D
<dwihno>	Should I unplug while listening @ work?
<PsycoXul>	the firmware/Makefile has the player defined for the target by default, while the apps/Makefile has the Old player defined as the target by default
<dwihno>	Just to prevent the batteries from overloading?
<Bagder>	we should make something about the different-targets situation in the makefiles
<dwihno>	An opinion: there should be no defaults - if you don't select what you want to build, you should get a selection, just to prevent confusion
<dwihno>	selection list
<Bagder>	no selection
<Bagder>	that's not for makefiles
<dwihno>	make firmware-player
<PsycoXul>	force people to 'make player_new' 'make player_old' or whatever and then 'make' just shows a list? heh
<dwihno>	make firmware-studio
<dwihno>	etc.
<Bagder>	possibly
<dwihno>	<-- is perverted, so, sue me ;)
<Bagder>	I think I'll prefer having them all built with 'make'
<dwihno>	that might cause confusion :)
<Bagder>	why?
<PsycoXul>	i agree its probably better at this point
<PsycoXul>	but for a release i dunno
<Bagder>	it makes it less probable that someone writes code that doesn't build on one target
<PsycoXul>	hmm
<PsycoXul>	actualy you know...
<dwihno>	If you get several files when compiling some people _will_ upload wrong firmware to the unit
<dwihno>	For development, it should build everything
<PsycoXul>	people who are gonna get confused about editing a makefile
<dwihno>	but for releases... :)
<PsycoXul>	probably aren't gonna have an sh1 dev environment
<Bagder>	right
<Bagder>	people will download the binary
<dwihno>	true, true
<dwihno>	So, building everything by default then? :)
<Zagor>	the downside to building all versions is that we'll end up doing two "clean" for each "make"
<dwihno>	<-- has had a second change of heart
<Bagder>	Zagor: why?
<PsycoXul>	i dunno
<Bagder>	we can fix that
<PsycoXul>	make a seperate target for each one
<Zagor>	because it's not just different object files, it's different command lines too
<PsycoXul>	that knows what it needs to build itself for its target
<Zagor>	PsycoXul: yeah, but that doesn't exactly make things simpler...
<PsycoXul>	why not?
<Bagder>	I think it does
<PsycoXul>	all: player_new player_old recorder
<Zagor>	because we break the source-file object-file correlation
<Bagder>	right, we stash the object files in a separate dir depending on target
<dwihno>	Whoa
<Bagder>	or similar
<Zagor>	hmm
<dwihno>	A VIM macro just gave me goosebumps ;D
<Bagder>	like when you compile unix stuff from the same source for multiple platforms
<Zagor>	Bagder: how many trees support multiple simultaneous target builds?
<Bagder>	whatever, the makefile editing is troublesome
<Zagor>	i don't think i've ever seen one
<Bagder>	Zagor: sure they do, that's done by autoconf/automake magic
<Zagor>	yeah, you conf and build it once for each platform
<Zagor>	not several platforms at once
<Bagder>	but with the same set of sources
<Bagder>	still
<Bagder>	we can't have this makefile editing
<Zagor>	i agree
<Bagder>	it'll only cause grief
<Zagor>	we should have separate targets, but i don't think target 'all' should build all versions
<PsycoXul>	the makefile editing isn't that bad except that you have multiple ones to keep synced
<PsycoXul>	so what should all do?
<Zagor>	it could simply "echo Choose a target: player-old, player or recorder"
<PsycoXul>	heh
<PsycoXul>	ok
<Zagor>	i'm undecided. the firmware lib is part of the mix too
<PsycoXul>	in that case probably be better with a little more descriptive list...
<Bagder>	... and then all: could bulild them all :-)
<dwihno>	Microsoft VBScript compilation (0x800A0414)
<dwihno>	Cannot use parentheses when calling a Sub
<dwihno>	DAMN WHEELCHAIR CODING!
<Zagor>	Bagder: not without 1) cleans 2) elaborate special-dir targetting
<dwihno>	Feels like I'm crippled and can't move my wheels!
<Bagder>	Zagor: different object files needed, yes, that's not such a big deal
<PsycoXul>	well how many of the source files need to be built specific to each target? all of them? most? some?
<Linus>	dwihno: try calling a function WITHOUT parantheses in C. Same thing.
<Zagor>	PsycoXul: all
<PsycoXul>	heh
<Bagder>	PsycoXul: many, not all, and not only a few ;-)
<Zagor>	the point is we don't know. all code can have target ifdefs
<PsycoXul>	ok
*	dwihno wants his paranthesises!
<Bagder>	dwihno: dump the crap languages then :-)
<Bagder>	there's another way of course
<dwihno>	:-)
<PsycoXul>	so why not have each target put its object files in its target-specific dir, and otherwise be the same as it is, but it just iterates through each?
<dwihno>	call:ing the subs... I know
<dwihno>	It still sucks
<Bagder>	we have have a little script to "setup build env"
<Zagor>	what's so bad about "make player-old" ?
<Bagder>	... that builds a specific target and puts the object files in its directory
<Linus>	Hehe. Why not write an ARCHOS.MOD that examines the target and creates a Makefile on the hard disk? :-)
<PsycoXul>	heh
<Zagor>	Linus: excellent idea ;)
<Bagder>	... then you just run that script in multiple places, one for each target you wanna build for
<PsycoXul>	hey
<PsycoXul>	why don't you port the whole dev environment to the target?
<PsycoXul>	:p
<Linus>	Perfect!
<PsycoXul>	then it can just examine itself 
<PsycoXul>	heh
<Bagder>	portable development! ;-)
<Bagder>	thinking about it, I now think the script-approach is better
<Bagder>	it makes it more configure-like
<PsycoXul>	well what is a makefile? heh
<Zagor>	"./configure player-old debug" ?
<Bagder>	like that, yes
<Zagor>	yeah, i think i like that
<PsycoXul>	hmm
<Bagder>	or possible interactive questions if you don't give any arguments
<Zagor>	it creates a target.make that Makefile includes
<PsycoXul>	yeah and then './configure' alone just tells you about what arguments you need to give it?
<PsycoXul>	hmm
<PsycoXul>	yeah
<Bagder>	Zagor: it can even generate a full Makefile
<PsycoXul>	is that target.make included also by the apps?
<PsycoXul>	so if you configure/build firmware for a target and then go right to the apps and build it does it for firmware's target automagically? heh
<Zagor>	Bagder: i think i'd prefer it just making a small file to be included. otherwise we'll have to edit the script rather than the Makefile
<Bagder>	I want to be able to run this script outside the source tree
<Bagder>	I could in fact volounteer to write a first attempt of a script like this
<PsycoXul>	well
<PsycoXul>	should there be a target code top level?
<Bagder>	Zagor: no, the script would use a Makefile.in template kind of
<PsycoXul>	like rockbox/apps rockbox/firmware etc?
<Zagor>	Bagder: good point. ok, it creates Makefile
<PsycoXul>	so what makefile does it create?
<PsycoXul>	a top level one? firmware/'s, apps/'s, both....
<PsycoXul>	*/'s? heh
<Bagder>	I think it should create a toplevel one
<Bagder>	that runs make for both firmware and apps
<Bagder>	with the correct options
<PsycoXul>	ok
<Bagder>	of course, as long as we settle for the idea, we can always change how the makefile is made later
<PsycoXul>	so is this script hanging out in the root of the repository along with the firmware and apps dirs or are we getting a new dir for those to go into, or a new dir just for the configuring, or... heh
<Bagder>	uh :-)
<Zagor>	the script can go into tools
<Bagder>	hey, that's what the code pilce is here for ;-)
<Bagder>	police
<PsycoXul>	tools is probably a good place for it
<PsycoXul>	but yeah i talk too much for a guy who just runs codes and says what doesn't work :p
<Bagder>	tools? where's tools?
<Zagor>	it's a cvs module
<PsycoXul>	you know where descramble, scramble, and sh2d are
<Bagder>	ah
<Bagder>	I didn't have that one checked-out
<PsycoXul>	heh
<PsycoXul>	i just checkout .
<PsycoXul>	since i can't just checkout rockbox
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<Bagder>	if we just make the makefiles support OBJDIR, I have an embryo now
<Bagder>	anyone with a good name for this setup-toplevel-build-makefile script?
<dwihno>	configure? :)
<Zagor>	i think configure is good, actually. many people are used to it
<Bagder>	ok
<PsycoXul>	with player we can have a real cursor so i think it'd be better to use than than to waste a precious char on a -
<Bagder>	indeed
<Bagder>	try my configure now
<Bagder>	its incomplete, but it works
<Bagder>	if just the firmware and apps makefiles support putting the object files in OBJDIR
<PsycoXul>	heh
<PsycoXul>	ok when i ran it from the top level as 
<PsycoXul>	tools/configure
<PsycoXul>	it couldn't find the firmware dir
<Bagder>	oh
<PsycoXul>	when i ran it ./configure from the tools dir it found them and then i get a bunch of command not found's on DEBUG, TARGET, FIRMDIR, CFLAGS, THISDIR, APPSDIR, CFLAGS, THISDIR
<Bagder>	silly
<PsycoXul>	heh
<Bagder>	hm
<Bagder>	a bash vs sh issue I guess
<PsycoXul>	hmm
<Bagder>	check the sed stuff at the bottom of the script
<PsycoXul>	hmm
<Zagor>	does the simulator support queues? I'm adding a button queue now.
<Bagder>	why would it need to? does it change the api?
<Zagor>	no, you're right.
<PsycoXul>	you can give echo the -n option to suppress a newline too btw
<PsycoXul>	though personaly i tend to use printf heh
<Bagder>	I don't think that is portable enough
<PsycoXul>	could be
<PsycoXul>	a lot of things do use echo -n though
<PsycoXul>	doesn't really matter
<PsycoXul>	but i don't get why the sed line doesn't work
<Bagder>	I'll re-arrange it
<Bagder>	I checked how configure does it and I'll make something similar
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<PsycoXul>	hmm
<PsycoXul>	i see what it is
<PsycoXul>	$(whatever) executes "whatever"
<PsycoXul>	and for some reason its interpreting those within the block
<PsycoXul>	it doesn't seem like it should but it does heh
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<PsycoXul>	and in the make lines, CFLAGS=$(CFLAGS) should be CFLAGS="$(CFLAGS)"
<PsycoXul>	and it wouldn't hurt for $(THISDIR) either cause you never know about people
<Bagder>	right
<PsycoXul>	but just escaping the $'s within the block fixed it
<PsycoXul>	the command not founds i mean
<Bagder>	within the Makefile block?
<PsycoXul>	yeah
<Bagder>	ok
<Bagder>	committed the fix
<Bagder>	perhaps I should make it possible to build the simulator the same way
<PsycoXul>	ok so that acts like it works and makes what appears to be a good makefile that runs what appears to be the right commandlines except none of the headers are found
<Bagder>	oh
<Bagder>	right
<Bagder>	we ruin the CFLAGS
<Bagder>	Zagor: you fine with the toplevel setting CPPFLAGS and then we use that for target/debug options in the firmware/apps makefiles?
<PsycoXul>	what're you on that has a real bourne shell thats not just symlinked to bash? and why does bash invoked as /bin/sh act any differently at all from it? heh
<Zagor>	Bagder: sounds fine to me
<Bagder>	PsycoXul: a solaris box
<PsycoXul>	ah
<Bagder>	it helps keeping this stuff portable
<PsycoXul>	isn't CPPFLAGS for c++? heh
<Bagder>	no, c preprocessor
<PsycoXul>	ah
<PsycoXul>	hmm
<Bagder>	kind of standard actually
<Linus>	what are we preprocessing?
<Bagder>	c files
<Bagder>	#include and #define you know ;-)
*	Bagder grins
<Linus>	But we don't preprocess them explicitly
<Bagder>	no
<Linus>	So what is CPPFLAGS supposed to do?
<Bagder>	flags that are meant for the CPP
<Linus>	like
<Bagder>	usually, -I and -D
<Bagder>	it is a very widespread de facto standard, set by autoconf et al
<Linus>	OK. So the default rule is $(CC) $(CFLAGS) $(CPPFLAGS)?
<Bagder>	no
<Bagder>	or perhaps yes
<Bagder>	not entirely sure
<Bagder>	that's not the point here anyway
<Linus>	I don't see the point if having separate flag vars
<Bagder>	the point?
<Bagder>	the toplevel makefile can't pass options using the CFLAGS variable
<Linus>	yes, the point
<PsycoXul>	so that the top level makefile doesn't have to supply the proper CFLAGS to give the target define
<Bagder>	since the firmware makefile uses it
<PsycoXul>	it just can give the target define and let the other makefiles have their own CFLAGS
<Linus>	Now I follow you
<Bagder>	I don't need to set either one
<Bagder>	I can just set DEBUG and TARGET
<PsycoXul>	yeah
<Linus>	or a general $(EXTRAS) variable
<Linus>	or something
<Linus>	was that the purpose of CPPFLAGS?
<PsycoXul>	since CFLAGS already includes $(TARGET) should just set that
<Bagder>	or just TOPLEVEL
<PsycoXul>	unless theres more than the script needs to set than the target for those flags
<Bagder>	Linus: EXTRAS or CPPFLAGS, yes
<Linus>	I think having a single variable set by the top makefile better allows for expansion
<Bagder>	true
<Linus>	but TARGET is so basic that it may need special treatment
<PsycoXul>	well
<Bagder>	but the Makefile need special treatment of the DEBUG option
<PsycoXul>	you could just put a + infront of the equal for the first CFLAGS line in the makefile and keep the script how it is couldn't you? heh
<PsycoXul>	*shrug*
<Bagder>	PsycoXul: no, because then the toplevel's variables won't override the local ones, for target etc
<PsycoXul>	hmm
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<Bagder>	uh, no
<PsycoXul>	but their being defined to the make line so they should
<Bagder>	right
*	Bagder gets confused
<PsycoXul>	thats why its not building now cause its overriding the CFLAGS
<PsycoXul>	and not what i said anyways :p
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<Bagder>	so we need to set the TARGET variable in the toplevel
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<Bagder>	ok, now it sets TARGET and DEBUG only
<PsycoXul>	heh
<PsycoXul>	yeah but you left $(DEBUG) unescaped again :p
*	Bagder hits himself in the head
<PsycoXul>	and hmm is it supposed to pass 'DEBUG=1' as an argument to make? heh
<Bagder>	yes
<PsycoXul>	ok
<PsycoXul>	oh right duh heh
<PsycoXul>	be nice with a clean: target too but yeah it works now anyways
<Bagder>	yeah, we should add clean target too
<Bagder>	I just made it support 'configure update' which reads a previous Makefile and just generates a new
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<Bagder>	good to have when the script is updated
<dwihno>	DAMN
<dwihno>	I HATE MY FUCKING ALLERGIY!
<dwihno>	http://www.pollenrapport.com/index.asp
<dwihno>	DAMN DAMN DAMN!
<chris1>	hi all, long time no eMail tread see in my inbox. so I check out this channel .
<PsycoXul>	heh
<PsycoXul>	things are still progressing
<PsycoXul>	i just tested directory browsing on my unit a little while ago and it [mostly] works
<PsycoXul>	wow so much green so little yellow its looking good heh
<dwihno>	PsycoXul: COOL :D
<PsycoXul>	hmm
<PsycoXul>	hmm
<PsycoXul>	how do you have rapport with pollen besides not being allergic to it? heh
<PsycoXul>	oh if rapport's not the english word heh
<dwihno>	:)
<dwihno>	<-- is making a script to send me pollenprognos varje day
<PsycoXul>	heh
<PsycoXul>	damn i think my usb transfer's fucked up again damnit
<PsycoXul>	and it shouldn't even be anywhere near dead i haven't even used it since last charge except to copy firmware on there a few times
<dwihno>	there
<dwihno>	Prognos:  22/5   H H H H M-H
<dwihno>	Now my script is done ;D
<dwihno>	Now I need some script to send a SMS
<PsycoXul>	so yeah for the directory browser whatever, i think there should some sort of method to easily add new file handlers
<PsycoXul>	of course when you select an mp3 it plays it, but it should also have such behaviour [eventualy] for any kind of file type we can do anything reasonable with, such as displaying a text file
<PsycoXul>	but yeah
<PsycoXul>	Zagor|lunch: what'd you break? heh
<PsycoXul>	button handling hmm
---	Linus|lunch is now known as Linus
<Linus>	dwihno: Have you tried "hyposensibilisering"?
<dwihno>	Linus: whazzaaat?
<Linus>	It's a medical program to treat allergy
<Linus>	You take one shot a week for a couple of years with the substance you are allergic to
<Linus>	so the body gets used to it
<dwihno>	hmm
<dwihno>	I could use it
<Linus>	I did it. And now I am free from my allergy.
<dwihno>	Whoa
<Linus>	However, I have heard of cases when it has backfired...
---	Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor
<dwihno>	ouch
<Zagor>	PsycoXul: buttons don't work?
<dwihno>	Zagor: Do you know any free SMS-sending service? :) I want to use a shellscript to post me pollen data every 24 hours :)
<Zagor>	i'm working on repeat handling
<Zagor>	dwihno: set up your own: smash.sourceforge.net
<dwihno>	Not Found
<dwihno>	The requested URL /download.php was not found on this server.
<dwihno>	Apache/1.3.20 Server at smash.sourceforge.net Port 80
<Zagor>	oops :)
<Zagor>	http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/smash/smash-0.12.tar.gz
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<Bagder>	hey ironi
<Zagor>	ooh, the web guru! :*)
<ironi>	hello =)
<ironi>	im sorry for being away, i have had a lot to do
<ironi>	right now im writing a paper on open source
<Bagder>	woo
<Zagor>	cool
<ironi>	its just a small paper for my class
<ironi>	im actually thinking of writing my masters on the same subject
<ironi>	this one im doing now will be  just 15-20 pages
<ironi>	anyway, i am trying to find information, especially on if/how open source development has affected companis using traditional development methods
<ironi>	prefferably smaller companies, not microsoft and ibm
<ironi>	thats the focus of the paper
<ironi>	nay ideas of whre i can search
<ironi>	i figured you guys know alot about this
<Bagder>	http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/policy/2001/12/12/transition.html
<Bagder>	:-)
*	Bagder brags
<Bagder>	http://www.softpanorama.org/Copyright/License_classification/social_roots_of_GPL.shtml
<Bagder>	http://www.sdmagazine.com/documents/s=746/sdm0003d/0003d.htm
<ironi>	wow
<Bagder>	mainly philosophical papers
<Zagor>	what's the name of that swedish company making web cameras and stuff? axess?
<Bagder>	something on A it is, axis?
<ironi>	hm
<ironi>	axis
<ironi>	i this
<ironi>	think
<Zagor>	yes, axis it is
<ironi>	Bagder: wow
<Zagor>	they've contributed a linux port for their ETRAX processors
<Zagor>	http://developer.axis.com/software/linux/index.html
<Zagor>	http://developer.axis.com/software/elinux/index.html
<Bagder>	I think they made the gcc adaption for it too
<ironi>	well
<Zagor>	probably, yes
<ironi>	Bagder: thanks for the links
<Bagder>	ironi: I can in fact dig up quite a few more on request ;-)
<ironi>	maybe something on if/how open source development has affected companies using traditional development methods
<Bagder>	we've been planning and discussing a follow-up on that O'Reilley article
<PsycoXul>	hmm back
<PsycoXul>	Zagor: it acts like there's buttons being pressed when there's not and goes wild then the red light comes on and it freezes
<Zagor>	PsycoXul: ohh, fun :-) i'm working on it
<Bagder>	ironi: I don't think there is very much material out there on that specific area
<ironi>	Bagder: I see. It is very interesting though, I think.
<Bagder>	it is
<Bagder>	http://www.osdn.com/bcg/BCGHACKERSURVEY.pdf
<Bagder>	"what motivates open source contributors"
*	Bagder participated
<Bagder>	ironi, check this http://www.michaelbauer.com/open-corporations.html
*	Bagder stops flooding
<ironi>	cool
<chris1>	we do it for fun, we love this RockBox. Nobody will make us a better software for this box, as we self.
<Bagder>	hey guys, if I commit a firmware/Makefile with OBJDIR support, can you check it out then?
<Zagor>	i'll be sure to smack you if it doesn't work, if that's what you mean :)
<Bagder>	that's exactly what I mean
*	Linus grabs his bat
<Bagder>	committed
<Bagder>	the deps generation is the tricky part
<Zagor>	idea: the default target in firmware/Makefile prints out: Don't run me! Read COMPILING.
<Bagder>	yeah, that might be a good idea
<Bagder>	the deps files should probably be made in the OBJDIR too...
<Bagder>	in fact they have to, to support multiple builds from the same sources
<Zagor>	yes
<Bagder>	well, try this version first
<Zagor>	seems to work
<Zagor>	unless I override OBJDIR, that is :)
<Bagder>	heh
<Bagder>	what fails?
<Zagor>	make: *** No rule to make target `/tmp/rb/drivers/ata.o', needed by `/tmp/rb/librockbox.a'.  Stop.
<ironi>	oops
<ironi>	gotta go
<ironi>	bbl
<Bagder>	bye ironi
<Zagor>	the -include at the bottom has to change too
<Zagor>	bye
<Linus>	cu
<PsycoXul>	make[1]: *** No rule to make target `/home/psyco/s/code/misc/archos/rockbox/drivers/ata.o', needed by `/home/psyco/s/code/misc/archos/rockbox/librockbox.a'.  Stop.
<PsycoXul>	heh thats without overriding OBJDIR 
<PsycoXul>	with using the tools/configure generated makefile...
---	Linus is now known as Linus|meeting
<Bagder>	that is "overriding" ;-)
<PsycoXul>	heh
<Bagder>	its the default actions that make this a bit tricky
<PsycoXul>	i see hmm
<Bagder>	me fix
<Bagder>	try now
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<PsycoXul>	make[1]: Entering directory `/home/psyco/s/code/misc/archos/rockbox/firmware'
<PsycoXul>	Updating dependencies for thread.c
<PsycoXul>	mkdir: cannot create directory `/home/psyco/s/code/misc/archos/rockbox/.deps': File exists
<Zagor>	I propose adding -b to the cvs diff mailings (ignore whitespace changes). anyone against?
<PsycoXul>	and 3 more mkdir errors
<Bagder>	Zagor: fine with me
<Bagder>	PsycoXul: if you make that mkdir -p ?
<Bagder>	nah
<Bagder>	the check is wrong
<Bagder>	the -d just before it
<PsycoXul>	hmm
<Bagder>	if [ ! -d $(OBJDIR)/$$d ]; it should be
<PsycoXul>	ake[1]: *** No rule to make target `/home/psyco/s/code/misc/archos/rockbox/drivers/ata.o', needed by `/home/psyco/s/code/misc/archos/rockbox/librockbox.a'.  Stop.
<Bagder>	hm
<PsycoXul>	why does it want to make drivers/ata.o and not just ata.o from drivers/ata.c
<PsycoXul>	heh
<Bagder>	ah
<Bagder>	I need to strip off the trailing subdir
<Zagor>	PsycoXul: the buttons work a little better now
<PsycoXul>	Zagor: cool
<PsycoXul>	i'll test it as soon as i get it to compile again heh :p
<Zagor>	still some odd bugs though :)
<PsycoXul>	so yeah i'm wondering
<PsycoXul>	i noticed when it boots it like pauses with the red light on for a moment and then the HD spins down and then spins back up again and then it reads it and then stuff comes up
<Zagor>	it's hyper responsive now. neato
<PsycoXul>	but archos' firmware doesn't do that, it just goes straight through
<PsycoXul>	are maybe some of the initialization things you're doing actualy done for you already by the rom firmware and thus unnecessary?
<Zagor>	PsycoXul: hmm, i don't get that over gdb
<PsycoXul>	hmm
<Zagor>	well actually I do, but that's because i always start from spun-down state
<Bagder>	drivers/lcd.c:427:22: macro "lcd_update" passed 1 arguments, but takes just 0
<Bagder>	why does it say this?
<Zagor>	because we first declare it as a macro and then try to define it as a function
<Zagor>	silly
<Zagor>	us
<Zagor>	:)
<Bagder>	ah right
<Zagor>	but adiamas was a bit hurried doing the fix. it should be a function for recorder too, not just simulator
<Zagor>	maybe that's why you're getting it
<Bagder>	it is
<dwihno>	tra l ala
<dwihno>	j<>vla allergibah
<Bagder>	this won't work with the default actions for .c.o
<Zagor>	we need to start getting this filelist code working soon
<Zagor>	and also start thinking about in-memory filelists
<dwihno>	Yeah
<Zagor>	such as the one we get when browsing. currently it reads from disk every time the list scrolls, which isn't exactly nice :)
<dwihno>	hehe
<dwihno>	"First get it to work, then optimize" ;)
<Zagor>	yup
<dwihno>	And make the font smaller too! I want to see long filenames and skip the scrolling! :)
<PsycoXul>	heh
<dwihno>	NOW NOW NOW! :)
<dwihno>	Just kidding
<Zagor>	ok, i've found our first (i think) works-in-simulator-but-not-in-target bug
<dwihno>	In time, everything will be perfect
<Zagor>	when browsing files in a subdir, scrolling down will mysteriously take you to the parent dir again
<Zagor>	only on target
<PsycoXul>	ok i've got a dir on here named "Adam Sandler" that shows up as "HMC1 Y   U"
<Zagor>	PsycoXul: that's code for "adam sandler sucks" :)
<PsycoXul>	:p
<Zagor>	"you really don't want to listen to this anyway, do you?" ;)
<PsycoXul>	hmm
<Zagor>	the lcd_puts also should output full lines, not just the length of the string
<Zagor>	lotsa bugs found already :)
<PsycoXul>	and then i go into this one dir and when i scroll past 2 files it goes to the dir below it heh
<PsycoXul>	or above it
<PsycoXul>	whatever
<Zagor>	or rather lcd_puts() works well, it's tree.c that bugs
<Zagor>	PsycoXul: yeah, I get that too. but not in the simulator
<PsycoXul>	hmm it also hasn't shown me an id3 yet
<PsycoXul>	and it seems to have just locked up trying on one
<PsycoXul>	heh
<Zagor>	no something bugs in the file access code, it prints out "can't find file"
<Zagor>	in gdb mode, that is
<Zagor>	I guess we're not ready for release yet :)
<PsycoXul>	it shows me no artist/no title on the disk label... heh
<PsycoXul>	locks up on archos.mod heh
<PsycoXul>	most of them it says [no id3 info] even though i know there is, and others it just locks up on
<Zagor>	file.c bugs. i'm looking at that now
<Bagder>	try the firmware/makefile again
<PsycoXul>	still its getting exciting heh
<PsycoXul>	hmm
<PsycoXul>	thread.c:42: warning: missing initializer
<PsycoXul>	thread.c:42: warning: (near initialization for `threads.ctx')
<PsycoXul>	make[1]: *** No rule to make target `/home/psyco/s/code/misc/archos/rockbox/crt0.o', needed by `/home/psyco/s/code/misc/archos/rockbox/librockbox.a'.  Stop.
<Bagder>	first thing, or does it do anything good first?
<PsycoXul>	well if i make it THISDIR="." it works heh
<PsycoXul>	yeah it compiles several things before getting to that
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<Bagder>	right, that's an assembler file
<elinenbe>	I am not sure if my box rocks!  Who should I speak to about this?
<Bagder>	hehe
<Bagder>	PsycoXul: another update!
<elinenbe>	For some reason it is packed full of Rod Stewart and Celion Dion!
<PsycoXul>	woo
<PsycoXul>	it gets all the way to apps/archos.elf before it dies about no ../firmware/librockbox.a 
<Bagder>	right, haven't touched that Makefile yet
<PsycoXul>	i know
<PsycoXul>	thats why i said woo :p
<Bagder>	:-)
<elinenbe>	things are moving along nicely?
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<Bagder>	they do
<dwihno>	<-- is sneezing like crazy
<--	elinenbe has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.6 [Mozilla rv:1.0.0+/20020513]")
<Zagor>	odd bugs happening
<dwihno>	?
<Zagor>	on target, tree.c calls playtune)() with too short a dir path!
<Zagor>	in the simulator it works just dandy
<dwihno>	not enough debugf's :)
<Zagor>	i've got gdb, I don't need DEBUGF :)
<dwihno>	Naaah :)
*	dwihno sends some debugfs' to dr. Zag
<dwihno>	Prognos:  22/5   H, H, H, M-H
<dwihno>	Damn, j<>vla pollen!
*	Bagder is back
<Bagder>	the apps/Makefile has been adjusted to OBJDIR now too
<Bagder>	would be neato if someone tried it out
<Zagor>	make -C IRMWARE OBJDIR=.
<Zagor>	make: *** IRMWARE: No such file or directory.  Stop
<Bagder>	ugh
<Bagder>	how did you get that?
<Zagor>	also add a -g to CFLAGS in apps while you're add it, it doesn't have one
<Zagor>	just running "make" in apps
<Bagder>	ah
<Bagder>	stupid me
<Bagder>	btw, do you have a better suggestion for that part
<Zagor>	i haven't looked at it :)(
<Bagder>	it has a dependency on the librockbox.a
<Bagder>	and if it is absent, it runs make in the firmware dir
<Bagder>	and generate the lib in the OBJDIR
<Bagder>	in fact, it generates everything in OBJDIR
<Bagder>	I could just ignore that target
<dwihno>	How dangerous is it to have the player attached to the power cord all days? Should I disconnect the charging device when the battery gets full?
<Zagor>	dwihno: it should be ok, but some US people have reported overheating problems
<Bagder>	I decided, I cut out that target
<Bagder>	damn it, no I don't
<Bagder>	Zagor: you want -g on all builds or just debug?
<Zagor>	just debug
<dwihno>	Zagor: Ah, okay. Your unit is unharmed? :) I guess you're the one who's using your archos on a daily basis
<Zagor>	yes, i have no problem with mine
<dwihno>	I'm off however. Have a nice evening.
---	dwihno is now known as dw_gone
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*	Zagor just soldered power cables to the battery pods. no more low battery problems :)
<Bagder>	I just committed a modified apps/Makefile
<Bagder>	you want to use that from the toplevel makefile
<Bagder>	"tools/configure update" is goodness too
<ironi>	lalal
<Zagor>	umm, have you added tools/configure?
<Bagder>	yes
<Bagder>	you should try it
<Zagor>	ah, it was already fetched.
<Zagor>	cool. works great!
<Bagder>	all the way?
<Zagor>	yep. create a build/ dir, ran ../configure update and make and whooosh, archos.mod
<Bagder>	neato
<Zagor>	yup, very nice
<Bagder>	almost like magic
<Bagder>	I'll make a post about it
<Zagor>	do so
<ironi>	Aare we approaching 1.0 any time soon?
<Zagor>	yep
<ironi>	*says the inpatient beta tester*
<Zagor>	ironing out some bugs currently
<ironi>	Zagor: wh do you think it will be available?
<Zagor>	a week, maybe two
<ironi>	cool
<ironi>	Maybe I sohuld put some effort into making a webpage to be doen until the release
<ironi>	done
<Zagor>	yeah, that'd be nice
<Bagder>	would be cool
<ironi>	=)
<ironi>	I just have to find some free time. =)
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<Zagor>	just send me the RGB values and i'll fix the basic layout
<Zagor>	then we can tweak it more later
<ironi>	as you wish
<ironi>	Zagor: light-blue: R:182 G: 198 B: 228, dark-blue: R: 104 G: 135 B: 187
<Zagor>	Bagder: will you add a COMPILING file to firmware/ too? or whatever is a suitable name
<Zagor>	ironi: thanks
<ironi>	Zagor: np
<Zagor>	do you have the link to that image, so I can take a look=
<Bagder>	I'll do that
<Bagder>	perhaps BUILD is better?
<Zagor>	or simply README :)
<Bagder>	or COMPILE ?
<Bagder>	README is good
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<Bagder>	README it is
<Bagder>	time to go
<Bagder>	see ya
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<Zagor>	gotta go. see you guys
<--	Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
<ironi>	so
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<chris1>	hi
<Tumm>	hi
<chris1>	I will short point out , that on w32 no stdbool.h file exist.The windows.h has some BOOELAN #define . on the W32 platform
<chris1>	most files on the firmware directory will use stdbool.h
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<amm80>	hello everyone
<amm80>	Is anyone listening, I'd like to chat about my Archos Jukebox
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<adi|home>	oh, christ.. your back?>
<Bagder>	?
<adi|home>	??
*	adi|home pokes Bagder with a wet noodle
<Bagder>	hey, its morning here!
<Bagder>	:-)
<adi|home>	hey its 02:00 here :)
<adi|home>	is something up with the sourceforge cvs?
<Bagder>	I dunno
<Bagder>	doesn't work?
<adi|home>	i do: cvs update -dp and it keeps failing on my password
<adi|home>	and its taking *forever*
*	Bagder tries
<Bagder>	yeps, seems like it is having problems
<adi|home>	grr
<dwihno>	Good morning lads.
<Bagder>	hey
<Bagder>	adi|home: cvs is up again
<adi|home>	i noticed :)
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<Bagder>	adi|home: you think it would be a good idea to use the configure approach for simulator builds too?
<Bagder>	morning bro
---	Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
<Zagor>	hi
<Bagder>	Zagor: we should remodel that activity thing on the web page, now that it is almost entirely green
<Bagder>	it makes the impression that we're done
<Zagor>	actually i did that on purpose yesterday
<Zagor>	do indicate how far off from release we are
<Zagor>	to
<Bagder>	any progress on the file code?
<Zagor>	actually, it's tree.c that bugs
<Bagder>	ah
<Bagder>	I'm about to finally get my sh tools setup
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*	Bagder sallutes dr Linus' arrival
*	dwihno pollutes ... erhm, salutes, too :)
*	Bagder considers setting up some "daily Rockbox builds"
<adi|home>	on the sim... if i want to try playing an mp3...
<adi|home>	what key do we have mapped to that?
<Bagder>	it should play it when it displays the id3 data
<adi|home>	hmmm and if it don't?
<Bagder>	then something isn't working ;-)
<adi|home>	in the makefile.. i should only have to turn the PLAY=1 on yes?
<Bagder>	MPEG_PLAY, yes
<Zagor>	play.c doesn't call the play code, i think
<Bagder>	it does
<adi|home>	hmmm i get an error stating mpeg_play.h not found...
<Zagor>	ok
<adi|home>	did we lose that at some point?
<Bagder>	I don't know
<Bagder>	I never tried playing mp3
<adi|home>	is there a way to test in a makefile if a value is on or not?
<Zagor>	ifdef
<adi|home>	ie: if(MPEG_PLAY==1)
<Zagor>	ifdef MPEG_PLAY
<adi|home>	k.. ill try that
<Bagder>	or 'ifeq'
<Zagor>	yes, if you want to compare values
<Bagder>	"Bonsai is tree control (get it?)"
<Bagder>	funny guys those mozilla hackers ;-)
<Zagor>	hehe
<Bagder>	bonsai + tinderbox makes a cool daily build system, you seen them in action?
<adi|home>	i don't get the Bonsai joke..
<adi|home>	how does it relate to mozilla..
<Bagder>	its a tool to overview CVS actions, in the dev tree
<Bagder>	it was made for mozilla, thought it is independent
<Bagder>	though
<Bagder>	we use it here in our project at work
<adi|home>	got ya
<Bagder>	we have tinderbox building the entire system, for 5-6 different configs, non-stop
<adi|home>	LOL 
<adi|home>	i guess you could call this "sound"
<adi|home>	jesus christ
<adi|home>	talk about sounding like crap
*	adi|home shakes his head
<Bagder>	it makes a great web-page that can show exactly who did what that made the compiles break
<adi|home>	okay.. i did my one minor fix for the day.. bed time
<Bagder>	night adi
<Bagder>	the toplevel makefile doesn't work for me
<Zagor>	no?
<Zagor>	what happens
<Bagder>	drivers/button.c:128: `PBDR_BTN_ON' undeclared (first use in this function)
<Bagder>	where is that define?
<Zagor>	uh, no idea
<Bagder>	this is a recorder build btw
<Bagder>	the player build works better, but not completely
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<Bagder>	hm, it is in Gary's code
<Bagder>	only
<Bagder>	hey irony
<irony>	hey Bagder 
<irony>	Zagor: u there?
<irony>	Bagder: u work @ contactor too?
<Bagder>	yepso
<Zagor>	yep
<irony>	cool
<Bagder>	yah ;-)
<irony>	you develop applications right?
<dwihno>	Everybody does! :)
<Bagder>	well, us guys are mainly embedded
<irony>	well some companies do consulting and supply vendor products
<Bagder>	realtime, network, unix, on the metal
<irony>	i have a short questionnaire for developers regarding open source
<irony>	in smaller companies, and contactor seems the right size
<irony>	so if i mail it to any of you would you answer? it takes 10 minutes
<Bagder>	well, we're pure consultants
<Bagder>	sure
<Zagor>	fire away
<irony>	email it now from my classmates account
<Bagder>	Zagor: is the "Port B data register bits" interesting for the Player too or are they Recorder stuff?
<Bagder>	they seem to be related to LCD mucking
<irony>	ok so i mailed it now, if you could anwer asap I would be happy
<Bagder>	got it
<irony>	=)
<Bagder>	uh, word
<Zagor>	irony: lesson 1: Don't use msword for open source work :)
<PsycoXul>	hah
<irony>	Zagor: i was just about to say that we dont practice what we research :-P
<Zagor>	Bagder: which bits do you mean? LCD_DS/CS/SD/SC are needed for both
<irony>	you do have word...or staroffice or somethig...dont you
<irony>	right
<Zagor>	irony: we can read it, but you'll get a text reply ok?
<irony>	no problem at all
<irony>	well, if you dont have any q's I need to continue my mission
<Bagder>	move on, there's nothing to see here ;-)
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<Linus>	Bagder: Port B is mostly LED, I2C and LCD
<Bagder>	but generic?
<Linus>	You mean common for both player and recorder?
<Bagder>	yes
<Linus>	I don't know. The Recorder schematic is incomplete
<Bagder>	ok
<Bagder>	I add them in the global area
<Linus>	But the Player uses Port B for LCD, LED and I2C
<Bagder>	then we'll change that if need be
<Linus>	global area?
<Bagder>	without ifdefs or anything
<dwihno>	I2C = ?
<Linus>	A serial bus
<dwihno>	:-)
<Bagder>	I intend to get a recorder version of archos.mod to build
<dwihno>	Cool! It would be neat to test it! :)
<dwihno>	How do you load it?
<dwihno>	does it require some hw mod?
<Zagor>	no, you just copy archos.mod to the root dir
<dwihno>	hm
<dwihno>	but what about the ajbrec.ajz file?
<Zagor>	the recorder looks for a number of files
<Zagor>	i'm not sure in what order. it's best to only have one firmware file in root
<dwihno>	okay
<Linus>	I just can't figure out why they would want a compressed firmware file (I guess ajz is compressed)
<Bagder>	Linus/Zagor: check out the sh7034.h mods I just committed
<Zagor>	no ajz is not compressed, it's just renamed
<Linus>	then I'm completely lost
<Zagor>	well, the ways of archos aren't meant to be understood by us mere mortals :)
<Linus>	Maybe the extension .MOD was too popular in Windows
<Linus>	and people got in trouble when double-clicking on it
<Zagor>	haha
<dwihno>	:)
<Linus>	maybe winamp tried to play it
<dwihno>	Is the 'HD-lock-problem' solved?
<dwihno>	I mean, the thing causing it?
<Zagor>	yes, long ago
<Zagor>	oh, no the reason is still unknown
<dwihno>	Stupid to even have such a feature
<Zagor>	yeah it's a bit odd
<Zagor>	i've heard the xbox uses it to protect against reading the disk in a pc
<Bagder>	dang
<Bagder>	archos.mod for the recorder
<Linus>	dang?
<Linus>	Ah
<Bagder>	:-)
<dwihno>	Is it done?
<Bagder>	its done here ;-)
<dwihno>	whoa!
<dwihno>	test it!
<Bagder>	don't have my archos around
<dwihno>	Well, if you promise it won't lock my HD, I want to test it :)
<dwihno>	<-- just got a cup of tea - TASTY! :]~
<Zagor>	i promise
<Zagor>	almost :)
<dwihno>	hehe
<dwihno>	Well, DCC it then :)
*	Bagder commits
<dwihno>	<-- has no compiler :/
<Bagder>	now all three targets build
<dwihno>	cool! :D
<dwihno>	send send send send :D
<dwihno>	<-- wants to test!
<Bagder>	I can't dcc, email only. address?
<dwihno>	dwihno@hotmail.com
<Bagder>	try this http://storebror.haxx.se/archos.mod
<dwihno>	got it
<dwihno>	here goes nothing
<dwihno>	didn't start the firmware
<dwihno>	I'll test renaming it
<Bagder>	yes, try that
<dwihno>	What is working with the firmware?
<Bagder>	hehe, we haven't even tried the recorder one yet
<dwihno>	ata: -2
<dwihno>	how do I turn it off?! :)
<Bagder>	ok
<Zagor>	dwihno: yay!
<Bagder>	c00l
<Zagor>	dwihno: you got that on the displat?
<dwihno>	Zagor: Yes, now tell me how to turn it off! :)
<Zagor>	hold down off
<Bagder>	then the lcd stuff works ok at least
<dwihno>	for how long :) ?
<Zagor>	if that doesn't work, pull a battery
<dwihno>	ah
<dwihno>	Pulled the power cord out
<Bagder>	sorry
<Zagor>	apparently the OFF key is software controlled
<dwihno>	with power cord out, power off worked
<Zagor>	ok, yeah you can't turn it off with the power cord connected
<Bagder>	ah
<Bagder>	goodie
<dwihno>	well, the ata: -2 means ?
<Zagor>	it means a part of the ata init code failed (check_registers)
<Zagor>	no, that's hard_reset
<Linus>	Bagder: why include the port name in the defines in sh7034.h?
<Bagder>	dwihno: you're the first person running this on the recorder, congrats! ;-)
<dwihno>	I AM! :D
<dwihno>	YAY!
<Bagder>	Linus: because that's how Gary did it and thus that's what the code uses
<Zagor>	i found the tree.c bug. it turns opendir() corrupts the input argument
<Linus>	We have waited long for a gullible guinea pig to try it. :-)
<Zagor>	Linus: lol
<Linus>	I think that defeats the purpose of having defines at all
<Bagder>	feel free to fix
<Linus>	I'll do that.
<Linus>	Someday. :-)
<Bagder>	haha
<Zagor>	Bagder: which code uses them, you said? no code in lcd.c uses them...
<Linus>	Bagder: what code uses those defines?
<dwihno>	How far away is a release now?
*	dwihno is thrilled! :D
<Zagor>	dwihno: a week, maybe
---	dwihno is now known as dwihno_ata-2
<Bagder>	Linus: lcd code
<dwihno_ata-2>	Now I'm known as the ata -2 dude ;D
<Zagor>	but the recorder will take longer, since we haven't written the mpeg code for that yet
<Bagder>	or was it buttons?
<dwihno_ata-2>	ah
<Bagder>	;-)
<dwihno_ata-2>	Nice to test it though :)
---	dwihno_ata-2 is now known as dwihno
<dwihno>	At least, the LCD stuff works ;)
<Zagor>	Bagder: never mind, i'll fix it so The Code Police is happy :)
<Bagder>	Zagor: you going full time rockbox then in a week or so? ;-)
<Zagor>	you bet!
<Bagder>	we expect miracles to happen then ;-)
<dwihno>	:D
<dwihno>	I showed my archos to my mother last night, she got all impressed
<Linus>	Bagder: not in lcd.c
<Bagder>	use grep?
<Linus>	Never mind. I'll leave that to the cops
<Zagor>	Bagder: is right for strtok_r:
<Zagor>	    for ( part = strtok_r(name, "/", &end); part;
<Zagor>	          part = strtok_r(end, "/", &end)) {
<Bagder>	no
<Bagder>	the first is right
<Bagder>	the second should use NULL as first argument 
<Zagor>	ah, then it takes end as start. ok, saw it now
<Zagor>	end points to the byte *after* the null termination, right?
<Zagor>	yes it does. ok
<Bagder>	I don't think you need to care about what it points to
<Zagor>	i need to restore the / chars in the string, since i'm strtok:ing the input argument
<Zagor>	either that, or copy the string every time
<Bagder>	ah
<Zagor>	well I guess a copy is cleaner
<Zagor>	i'll do that for now
<Zagor>	Bagder: how should i initialize the malloc system?
<Bagder>	first dmalloc_initialize();
<Bagder>	then bmalloc_add_pool(thisisourheap, AMOUNT_OF_MEMORY);
<Zagor>	ok
<Bagder>	'make clean' first generates all depencies, then removes them all... :-/
<Bagder>	dependencies
<Zagor>	yeah, not very pretty
<Bagder>	it annoys me
<Zagor>	where is size_t defined?
<Bagder>	stdlib.h I think
<Bagder>	now why would ata_hard_reset() fail?
<Zagor>	1) it's using the wrong port pin
<Zagor>	2) the ata interface registers are at different addresses
<Bagder>	ok
<Zagor>	actually 1) isn't a problem, we've always had it at the wrong pin :)
<Bagder>	so we might need to bring out the disassembler again?
<Zagor>	no linus has just "beeped" the right one
<Bagder>	heh
<Bagder>	good old beeping linus ;-)
<Zagor>	getsonglength() doesn't work on target. it never finds a frame header
<Bagder>	weird
<Linus>	PA9
<Linus>	not PA1
<Linus>	It seems like Archos was aiming to use IDE DMA
<Zagor>	whoooo, id3 display!
<Zagor>	(songlength commented out)
<Linus>	Or maybe they do...?
<Zagor>	time for Greasy Friday
*	Zagor now only waits for Linus' mpeg code
<Bagder>	so the tree stuff works now?
<Zagor>	yup, it was the opendir() strtok that bugged
<Bagder>	coolio
---	Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch
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<Zagor>	recorder ata uses a different ENABLE pin according to the schematic
<Zagor>	that would explain why it's not working
<Bagder>	sounds right
<Zagor>	all this is accordning to linus, of course. i take no responsibility :-)
<Bagder>	:-)
<dwihno>	GO LINUS!
<dwihno>	GO MPEG!
<dwihno>	:D
<Bagder>	Zagor: if you make a fix, I'll rebuild and we'll have dwihno test it :-)
<dwihno>	haha
<dwihno>	Fix the damn ata: -2 first :)
<Zagor>	dwihno is a good test victim :)
<Bagder>	dwihno: that's the part we're talking about
<Zagor>	dwihno: that's what we're discussing
<dwihno>	Ah, cool :)
<dwihno>	What's wrong with the ata stuff?
<dwihno>	Didn't you fix that already?
<Zagor>	not yet
<Zagor>	we're working on it
<dwihno>	Cool
<dwihno>	Do you know what's wrong?
<Zagor>	not exactly, the ENABLE theory was wrong
<Zagor>	we're comparing the schematics
<Bagder>	asch
<dwihno>	mkay
<dwihno>	strcmp!
<dwihno>	strcmp("ata: -2", "No ata error");
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<Zagor>	silent bob joins again :)
<Bagder>	hi Tumm!
<Bagder>	Zagor: MAX is wrong
<Zagor>	really?
<Bagder>	just swapping the positions to MIN still return the smaller one
<Zagor>	right. it was linus' idea! ;)
*	Linus slaps his forehead
*	Bagder laughs
<Bagder>	I had to think several seconds
*	Zagor has no brain of his own
<Bagder>	assuming you did something clever
<Linus>	I didn't
<Linus>	It's a pity that Zagor relies on my brain...
<Bagder>	cvs commit mails truly are useful
*	dwihno starts singing the "damn you customer, you are so dumb" song
<dwihno>	The user is a slave under the software
<dwihno>	The coder is a master over the software
<dwihno>	Thus, the coder is master over the user :)
<Bagder>	users are annoying ;-)
<dwihno>	LUKE, I'M YOUR MASTAH!
<dwihno>	NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
<dwihno>	Users are bad.
<dwihno>	Bad for the mopral
<Bagder>	ice cream!
<dwihno>	Coffee!
<dwihno>	10: drink_coffee(lots)
<dwihno>	20: goto 10
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<dwihno>	Are there any ANSI C ways to read a high-resolution timer?
<Bagder>	no
<dwihno>	Bugger! :/
<dwihno>	Well, I guess I'll have something to do tonight, checking the win32 api :)
<Bagder>	:-)
<dwihno>	What do you think about win32 api coding vs. mfc?
<Bagder>	GetLocalTime()
<Bagder>	they both suck
<dwihno>	If you need to choose?
<Bagder>	I have no clue, really
<Bagder>	Zagor: ever been bitten by the great pSOS time() bug? ;-)
<Zagor>	yeah, we just barely survived it
<Bagder>	hehe
<Bagder>	we just recently found out
<Bagder>	time(NULL) writes to address 0 ;-)
<dwihno>	ata: -2
<dwihno>	:)
<Bagder>	dwihno: what's your real name?
*	Bagder writes a little status mail
<Zagor>	we're very close now
<dwihno>	Hmm
<dwihno>	I am Magnus
<dwihno>	Nice to meet you :)
<Bagder>	hehe
<dwihno>	Magnus <20>man
<Zagor>	i've integrated the mpeg player code, but somehow the threading bugs
<dwihno>	Evil gosse
<Zagor>	i can tell you guys that the 6000 draws 170mA when idle
<dwihno>	Is that good or bad? :)
<Zagor>	well, it just is :-)
<Zagor>	it'll be fun trying to lower that by turning off various things
<Zagor>	it goes up to ~700mA during disk access
<dwihno>	With rockbox or the original firmware?
<Zagor>	rockbox
<dwihno>	okay
<dwihno>	you should compare it :)
<dwihno>	and make some cool charts
<Zagor>	good point, i'll check with the original firmware some day
<dwihno>	Rockbox - The low power consuming firmware
<Zagor>	well, not yet :)
<dwihno>	hehe
<Bagder>	I gotta run
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<Zagor>	bye
<dwihno>	The LCD should be configurable to turn itself off after X seconds of inactivity
<dwihno>	and the scroller should be fast too :)
<dwihno>	since my filenames are really long :)
<dwihno>	and the font could be available in a smaller set :)
<Zagor>	the problem with fast scroll is that it gets blurry. the lcd is pretty slow
*	dwihno = idespruta today
<Zagor>	fix us a smaller font then
<dwihno>	Sure
<dwihno>	Can you send me a gif with the current charset from the recorder so I have a reference?
<Zagor>	it's on the research notes  page 
<dwihno>	okay
<dwihno>	Is there a problem with different font size on the LCD?
<dwihno>	I guess the players are limited already
<Zagor>	the player is fixed, the recorder is free
<dwihno>	Mkay
<Zagor>	i have a windows font called "small fonts" that would be cool. it's VERY small, like 5x3 pixels
<Zagor>	yet quite readable
<dwihno>	Just map it in photoshop then :)
<dwihno>	6x9 px
<dwihno>	right?
<dwihno>	(the current one)
<Zagor>	maybe, i don't know
<dwihno>	6x8, I see now
<dwihno>	Do you think it would be a disaster with only capital letters?
<Zagor>	not very pretty, anyway
<dwihno>	Yeah
<dwihno>	True, true
<dwihno>	The current rockbox uses the "built-in" charset?
<Zagor>	no, there is no built-in. it's defined in charset.c
<dwihno>	mkay
<dwihno>	I thought it would be something stored in some neat ROM somewhere :)
<dwihno>	The file or directory \Desktop DF is corrupt and unreadable. Please run the chkdsk utility.
<dwihno>	Damn gay files created when the archos is connected to a mac!
<dwihno>	damn
<dwihno>	gay file!
*	dwihno gets crazy
<dwihno>	Mac creates a shitload of stupid files when you attach it.
*	dwihno learned his lesson
---	dwihno is now known as dw|gone
*	Zagor can SMELL the release
<Zagor>	ooooh, just a little bug left. too bad i've got to go. see you all!
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<PsycoXul>	hmmm
<PsycoXul>	hmm
<PsycoXul>	UIE68 at 09000D20
<PsycoXul>	heh
<adi|home>	i dunno who did what.. but the uisim is broken.. am im too damn tired to fix it.. have fun.
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<ironi>	hllo
<Zagor>	hi
<ironi>	hi Zagor
<ironi>	hey I just checked the page, and I see there is no red anymore
<ironi>	cool
<ironi>	=)
<ironi>	everything is underway, then
<Zagor>	yup
<ironi>	seen this: An international team set a new record for Internet performance by transferring the equivalent of an entire compact disc's contents across more than 7608 miles (12,272 km) of network in 13 seconds. The rate of 401 megabits per second achieved in transferring 625 megabytes of data from Fairbanks, Alaska to Amsterdam in the Netherlands is over 8000 times greater than the fastest dial-up modem
<ironi>	cool
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<huz>	hi all
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<Zagor>	changed the web page look
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<ironi>	hey
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*	adi|home screams!!!
<adi|home>	wtf...
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<kitsune>	loh
<adi|home>	hello
<adi|home>	and welcome :)
<kitsune>	hey
<kitsune>	I'm suprised to see stuff is actually getting done in development
<kitsune>	;p
<adi|home>	hehe alot of stuff..
<kitsune>	I've got my second juke
<adi|home>	v1 is close at hand for the players...
<adi|home>	nice
<kitsune>	first one died horribly
<kitsune>	heh
<kitsune>	This one has problems, I guess
<kitsune>	heh, there is an apps/ development area?
<kitsune>	I'm impressed :P
<kitsune>	how much will this firmware differ from Archo's default? URL to FAQ? ;)
<adi|home>	hhehe you should play witht he sim a bit.. :)
<adi|home>	hehe
<kitsune>	the sim?
<kitsune>	Tetris?
<adi|home>	lol
<adi|home>	we have a user interface simulater
<kitsune>	porting Quake II to the Archos
<kitsune>	ah
<kitsune>	I suspect I'll have to get my hands dirty with all kinds of sh assembly and such
<adi|home>	so ppl like me can play with the api's while we are trying to get off metal.
<adi|home>	depends on what you want to do.
<kitsune>	heh
<kitsune>	I wouldn't mind customizing some things ;p
<kitsune>	i.e. the startup 'logo'
<adi|home>	and i ake it you found my baby ;) (the FAQ)
<kitsune>	yeah
<adi|home>	ehehe already done ;)
<kitsune>	heh.
<adi|home>	for the recorder, its a bitmap of the ROCKbox! logo
<kitsune>	hah, bitmap? Awesome
<adi|home>	nods
<kitsune>	my little annoying project has been getting a very skinny Linux boot disk, ala tomsrtbt, and using the jukebox as a nice, simple USB hd.
<adi|home>	the makefile is a bit scerwed up for the rockbox sim right now.. and im just to lazy to work on it.
<kitsune>	heh
<adi|home>	hehehe
<adi|home>	good luck :)
<kitsune>	there are some whacky physical problems with mine
<adi|home>	maybe you could help with the rolo then :)
<kitsune>	I must find an adequate tool to crack open my box.
<kitsune>	stupid power terminal seems mashed
<adi|home>	:)
<adi|home>	can't help you there.. i know nothing about the hardare
<kitsune>	hah
<kitsune>	thus I yank out the soldering iron, and raid some catalog for a decent replacement :p
<kitsune>	I suspect an allan wrench could do it.
<kitsune>	I've run into the double-height capability through some weird bug
<kitsune>	:p
<kitsune>	and indeed, it is quite annoying
<adi|home>	hehehe
*	adi|home runs off a bit
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<dwihno>	Hell<6C>
<Bagder>	hey
<dwihno>	Had a nice weekend?
<Bagder>	yeps
<Bagder>	you?
<dwihno>	Yeah, I didn't get any serious work done, but I guess it was OK
<dwihno>	The entire sunday was spent fixing the mothers-day gifts and such
<Bagder>	hah
<Bagder>	I saw that attack of the clones yesterday
<dwihno>	Was it good?
<Bagder>	well, there are some cool effects, there's cool scenery and stuff
<Bagder>	I think the Anakin character is a crap actor
<Bagder>	all in all, I'd give it an "average"
<dwihno>	okay
<dwihno>	Expensive hobby ;)
<dwihno>	Ever since my archos investment, I've been a cheap bastard :)
<Bagder>	:-)
<Bagder>	woo, sound settings menu committed
<dwihno>	:O
<dwihno>	New code huh?
<dwihno>	What has happened during the weekend? :)
<dwihno>	You coded instead of celebrating your mother? :)
<Bagder>	Bj<42>rn's committed various fixes
<dwihno>	Minor bugfixes?
<Bagder>	I'd call them "fixes" ;-) They're more than bugfixes
<Bagder>	the sound settings is added
<Bagder>	and he modified the menu system
<dwihno>	Mkay
<dwihno>	Is there any precompiled win32 simulators available for testing?
<Bagder>	still no ATA fixes that are likely to correct the Recorder problem though
<dwihno>	I thought it would be neat to test the menu
<Bagder>	nope
<Bagder>	yes, binary simulator packages would be neat
<Bagder>	though the win32-guys are lagging behind these days, I doubt the simulator builds on win32 anymore
-->	kitsune (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
<Bagder>	howdy kitsune
<kitsune>	heya
<kitsune>	Lords of Acid - Pussy
<kitsune>	fun to see rockbox is undergoing work ;)
<Bagder>	oh yes, moving steadily towards 1.0
<kitsune>	I sort of watched its development before it even had a name.
<Bagder>	:-)
<kitsune>	Brother of Bjorn?
<Bagder>	I am, yes
<kitsune>	heh, fear my lack of umlauts.
<kitsune>	I haven't quite messed around with setting up my keyboard for that.
<Bagder>	I don't blame you
<Bagder>	we have those odd-looking characters in our language ;-)
<kitsune>	heh, you're the one who toys with id3, nifty
<Bagder>	right, I added that code
<dwihno>	BROTHER OF BJORN!
<dwihno>	ALMIGHTY BROTHER! :D
<Bagder>	?
<Bagder>	hehe, right
<Bagder>	he's my kid brother
<kitsune>	*nix has some nice ones tools for dealing with those tags :P
<kitsune>	I generally strip id3v2 tags, and make use of id3ren to give my files a nice, consistent feel.
<dwihno>	That makes you 40 years old? :)
<Bagder>	dwihno: not quite ;-)
<dwihno>	I would strip all ID3 tags and run a utility storing a checksum in the comment field of an id3v1 tag
<dwihno>	Bagder: So how old are you?
<dwihno>	Villa, volvo, vovve? :)
*	Bagder is 31
<dwihno>	Then you got all those! :D
<dwihno>	What's the name of the dog? Pricken?
<Bagder>	nope
<dwihno>	I'M NOT WORTHYYY!
*	kitsune messes with another nifty usb hack :p
<kitsune>	gtkam
<kitsune>	the power of gphoto
<dwihno>	USB = cute
<Bagder>	I haven't tried v2 yet, of gphoto
<kitsune>	it is the only thing that works my my camera
<Bagder>	ok, v1 didn't work with mine ;-)
<Bagder>	Cannon S20
<kitsune>	A20
<dwihno>	I got a USB webcam thingy
<dwihno>	But it's weird 3com stuff, so I guess it won't work :)
<kitsune>	http://rei.damnsw.net/~adam/stuff/archos.jpg
<kitsune>	I got bored and decided to scrap my old cgi image gallery :P
<dwihno>	ayanami rei?
<kitsune>	heh.
<kitsune>	indeed.
<dwihno>	cute pic :D
<kitsune>	yeah
<dwihno>	I think Asuka is the coolest
<kitsune>	heh.
<dwihno>	That's a lady with attitude! :)
<kitsune>	Well, my machine is pretty much going to be renamed lilith
<kitsune>	eventually
<kitsune>	which is ironic, for someone named adam :p
<kitsune>	or perhaps eve
<kitsune>	;)
<dwihno>	:)
<Bagder>	kitsune: you tried running rockbox yet then? ;-)
<Bagder>	seeing you have a studio
<kitsune>	Badger - heh, no.
<dwihno>	I'd love to see the ata: -2 thing fixed, so I can test it on my recorder :)
<kitsune>	hmm
<Bagder>	dwihno: I agree
<Bagder>	we might need to get a recorder modded for gdb
<kitsune>	I'm pleased with the studio.
<kitsune>	nice, simple
<kitsune>	but I'd go for a nice new recorder, with USB2
<dwihno>	Who wouldn't :)
<dwihno>	That's why I got one ;D
<kitsune>	heh
<kitsune>	indeed
<dwihno>	I love it already!
<kitsune>	It'd be a good present for someone
<dwihno>	I also use it for project storing
<kitsune>	I suspect most folks I know would be fine with 6 gbs :P
<adi|home>	Bagder.. yeah.. bjorn commited them... now the uisim so good and broken
<Bagder>	adi|home: I know, am working on that right now
<dwihno>	Some people might find 20gb overkill :)
<kitsune>	it is ;p
<dwihno>	But when it comes to data storage, it is never enough! :D
*	dwihno awaits the 100gb model with great anticipation
<dwihno>	;)
<adi|home>	yeah. i was chasing it... and got too damn tired.. im headed to bed now :(
<kitsune>	I've noticed the USB doesn't seem to be very fast. :p
<Bagder>	adi|home: leave it to me, I'll have the sim working in a few mins again
<kitsune>	night adiamas
<kitsune>	I could go for a type of docking mp3 player, that'd be kind of nifty.
<kitsune>	albeit you'd still pretty much be stuck with one interface or another.
<dwihno>	Hm
<kitsune>	http://rei.damnsw.net/~adam/buttwurst-washingmachine.jpg
<dwihno>	MP3 players should be mounted as external hard drives
<dwihno>	That's the biggest breakthrough
<kitsune>	hilarious images grepped from somethingawful
<kitsune>	heh
<dwihno>	instead of using gay-ass software
<dwihno>	(which, at any time, might be stopped from further development)
<kitsune>	dwihno - heh, modprobe usb-storage, mount /mnt/juke ;p
<kitsune>	there, external HD.
<dwihno>	yeah
<dwihno>	That's how it's supposed to be done!
<kitsune>	Well, it isn't like it is a horribly revolutionary idea ;p
<dwihno>	How do you do to "stop" devices under linux?
<kitsune>	they're just not using some stupid proprietary system that doesn't work all the well.
<Bagder>	dwihno: you umount the fs again
<kitsune>	heh. umount /mnt/juke :p
<dwihno>	You don't have to do anything else?
<kitsune>	yeah
<dwihno>	I mean, in wintendo, you need to "stop" theservice
<kitsune>	I'm thinking of basically having a docking-ish feature for this thing
<kitsune>	just use a sync.
<kitsune>	so I don't need to copy things manually, copy -u is a bit of a bore.
<dwihno>	ah
<dwihno>	I got a semi-script thingy which synchronizes the content of my player with d:\mp3 :-)
<kitsune>	heh.
<Bagder>	I wrote a mp3sync that works for me
<kitsune>	heh
<Bagder>	syncs two file trees
<dwihno>	How does it compare them if the same file exists in two places?
<dwihno>	Timestamp?
<kitsune>	that is basically how cp -u does it.
<Bagder>	no
<dwihno>	<-- baked buns yesterday btw
<dwihno>	I'm the no #1 chef! :D
<Bagder>	I do a filesize check first
<dwihno>	I like progress bars
<dwihno>	They are sleek
<dwihno>	With time calculation stuff which tells how much time is needed to synchronize the trees
<Bagder>	it would require a two-pass thingie
<dwihno>	Who cares!
<dwihno>	"As long as it's pretty(tm)" :)
<kitsune>	progress bars? ;p
<dwihno>	yup
<kitsune>	nice.
<dwihno>	Time to goto meeting ;)
<dwihno>	brb
---	dwihno is now known as dw|meeting
<kitsune>	later.
<kitsune>	oh well
<kitsune>	I'm greatly impressed :P
<Bagder>	crap, the recoder build is broken again
<Bagder>	recorder
<kitsune>	heh.
*	kitsune recalls the mp3 he'd hunt for
<kitsune>	Carmina Burana - O Fortuna
<kitsune>	to commemerate the efforts of open source programming :P
<Bagder>	:-)
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<Zagor>	woo boys
<Bagder>	morning Zagor
<Bagder>	the recorder build is broken
<Zagor>	ok, what happens?
<Bagder>	it's really weird
<Bagder>	malloc/dmalloc.c:555: conflicting types for `realloc'
<Bagder>	/usr/local/sh/sh-elf/include/stdlib.h:93: previous declaration of `realloc'
<Bagder>	make[2]: *** [/home/daniel/src/rockbox/build-recorder/malloc/dmalloc.o] Error 1
<PsycoXul>	not just recorder
<Zagor>	ah, yes. that's a bit odd
<PsycoXul>	i got that too on my last player build
<Bagder>	ok
<Bagder>	yes, I get it in the player build too
<Bagder>	its the stdlib.h include in bmalloc.h that causes it
<Bagder>	but how does the realloc() differ?
<Zagor>	stdlib's realloc takes a void* as first parameter
<Bagder>	aha
<Bagder>	the dmalloc.h proto too ;-)
<Zagor>	hehe
<Bagder>	fix committed
<Zagor>	goodie
<Zagor>	btw, how do you guys like the new web look?
<Bagder>	the simulator builds too again
<Zagor>	found any bugs yet? ;)
<Bagder>	Zagor: I want a link on the image on the left-top corner
<Bagder>	to the front page
<Zagor>	right
<Zagor>	fixed
<Bagder>	time for a coffee refill
-->	kitsune (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
<Bagder>	do you think I should make the tools/configure system work to build the simulator too?
<kitsune>	eh.. I dunno
<kitsune>	all been a blur for me.
<Zagor>	nah, i don't think that's necessary. we don't have to mix that too much
<kitsune>	when 1.0 pops out in a nice tar.gz, I'll be happy
<Bagder>	:-)
<Zagor>	kitsune: :-)
<Bagder>	we should write a tarball-maker-script
<kitsune>	I think it has been done
<kitsune>	maybe.
<Zagor>	PsycoXul: my doubleheight code doesn't work. isn't that how you did it?
<kitsune>	I need to get a nice set of new batteries for my juke :P
<kitsune>	2200 mAhs or something
<Zagor>	i've only ever seen 1800. who makes 2200?
<kitsune>	I think you can order them
<kitsune>	This is from taking a short visit to my local batteries plus.
<kitsune>	batteries are expensive, but rechargeable ones are not too bad :p
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<Linus>	Have you missed me?
<Zagor>	i've missed your bug fix to the mpeg code
<kitsune>	hey
<Bagder>	oh yeeees
<Bagder>	we miss your ata adjustments to make the recorder version rock ;-)
*	kitsune waves to the nice developer type man
<Linus>	Oh. I feel welcome. :-)
*	Zagor notices he seems to have broken the menu code this weekend :)
<Linus>	Yeah. I have missed a working menu code all weekend.
<Bagder>	hahaha
<Zagor>	blrllrlrl
<Zagor>	it did work, neener neener
<Linus>	I just couldn't fix the MPEG code without it.
<Zagor>	bah, last I heard you couldn't even get your PC running ;)
<Linus>	No. I have a PC from hell!
<Linus>	I upgraded to be able to betatest a new ***** card from ***** (NDA).
<Linus>	And the single thing that didn't work in the box was that damn card!!!
<Linus>	Major BSOD if I insert it.
<kitsune>	just have a wimpy linux box around for kicks? ;p
<adi|home>	grrrrrr.. Bagder... 
<adi|home>	In file included from ../../apps/play.c:35:
<adi|home>	../common/mpegplay.h:21: conflicting types for `mpeg_play'
<adi|home>	../../firmware/mpeg.h:23: previous declaration of `mpeg_play'
<adi|home>	make: *** [play.o] Error 1
<adi|home>	we have function collisions.
<Bagder>	ugh
<adi|home>	when you turn play on in the makefile...
<adi|home>	the mpegplay in common needs to be renamed.
<adi|home>	thats all.
*	Bagder points to Linus and Zagor
<Bagder>	:-)
<adi|home>	heehe
*	Zagor takes no responsibility for breaking the simulators :)
<Bagder>	I thought they were supposed to work the same way
<adi|home>	they were... but having both functions in there is not a good idea...
<adi|home>	otherwise.. we should #define around themm...
<Bagder>	well, the simulator one could be remade to return void
<Bagder>	then they would be the same
<adi|home>	ont you still get conflicts?
<adi|home>	redefinitions?
<Bagder>	no
<Zagor>	the simulator doesn't include mpeg.c
<Bagder>	those are only prototype conflicts
<adi|home>	ahh.. okay.. then i fix
<Zagor>	PsycoXuuuuul!
<adi|home>	fixed
<PsycoXul>	hmm
<Zagor>	PsycoXul: i need help with the double-height mode. my code isn't working
<PsycoXul>	hmm
<PsycoXul>	ok
<--	kitsune has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
<PsycoXul>	with the old lcd_write(int byte, int data) from the old scroller code, i used lcd_write(9,0)
<PsycoXul>	i dunno how the new code is exactly but maybe false instead of true? heh
<Zagor>	that's precisely what I do too :-(
<Zagor>	hmm, maybe there's a difference in old/new lcds
<Linus>	Possibly
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---	Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
<Zagor>	fuhn fuhn fuhn on the autobahn
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<Zagor>	boooo! .a dependencies aren't working
<Zagor>	i changed file.c and it's not rebuilding the lib
---	dw|meeting is now known as dwihno
<Bagder>	btw, why do we generate one .dep file for each file and not just one single one?
<Zagor>	'cause that's how adis dep script does it :)
<Bagder>	ok :-)
<Zagor>	also it's easier to see when to update the dependencies if you have one .dep per file
<Bagder>	ah, right
<PsycoXul>	ok it must be a difference in the lcd's
<PsycoXul>	it works fine here
<Zagor>	ok
<Zagor>	great with me, lameness is
-->	kitsune (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
<Zagor>	I've been chasing reentrancy bugs in open() and opendir() for 40 minutes, only to find out i was calling open() with a bad argument... :)
*	Bagder puts the "I am lame" sticker on Zagor's forhead
<dwihno>	Zagor: Try to have the "positive side" approach - at least, you found it
*	dwihno puts the "you found the problem and solved it" sticker on Zagor's nose
<Zagor>	:)
<Zagor>	another positive: opendir() now supports multiple concurrent open dirs
<Bagder>	coolness
<kitsune>	multiple concurrent open dirs?
<dwihno>	:D
<kitsune>	how does that work? ;p
<dwihno>	Zagor RUUUUUUULES!
<dwihno>	Zagor: Now move your ass and fix the ata: -2 problem ;)
<Bagder>	kitsune: doing multiple opendir() before doing closedir()
<Zagor>	dwihno: the recorder is low prio right now
<kitsune>	well, exactly what would the noticeable difference? ;p
<Zagor>	kitsune: we have more than one thread
<dwihno>	Zagor: I'm just kidding. I know about the priorities
*	kitsune forsees multiprocessor mp3 players ;p
<kitsune>	powered by a car battery, just barely portable? ;p
<kitsune>	nothing like a good ol fashioned compiler to spike up my load average
<Zagor>	muh, it's the linker script!
<Zagor>	baaaad linker script
<Zagor>	stack, heap and mp3 buf are all in the same location :)
<dwihno>	ln -s $1 $2
<dwihno>	there is a good linker stuff ;D
<Zagor>	yesssss, now we have sound playback working IN THE APPLICATION
<Zagor>	we are *close*
<dwihno>	:O
*	dwihno is <----------- this ----------> impressed!
<dwihno>	You rules! :D
<PsycoXul>	heh
<PsycoXul>	in current cvs? heh
<Zagor>	PsycoXul: yup, linus is checking in the last fix now (gdb.lcd and app.lds)
<PsycoXul>	woo
<kitsune>	hmm, 4 AM
<kitsune>	close to 1.0?
<Zagor>	kitsune: very
<dwihno>	:D
<kitsune>	well, version numbers are fairly irrelevent ;p
<Zagor>	indeed :)
<kitsune>	considering slack's jump from 4 to 7
<dwihno>	:)
<dwihno>	That's what happens when you give into the group pressure ;)
<kitsune>	heh
<kitsune>	or get tired of getting e-mails "Is this Linux 7?"
<dwihno>	:)
*	kitsune finishes building evil cross compiling gcc
<kitsune>	I should setup a 68k one too :P
<dwihno>	:)
<dwihno>	cross compilers are sexy
<kitsune>	it'd be kind of cool to get Linux working on a mac plus
<kitsune>	have a nice logging box :P
<kitsune>	that'd be it.
<kitsune>	slightly more legal than the MacBong
<kitsune>	more humane than the MacAquarium
<PsycoXul>	 /usr/sh1/lib/gcc-lib/sh-elf/3.0.3/../../../../sh-elf/bin/ld: section .pad [000000000900c800 -> 000000000900c803] overlaps section .stack [000000000900b840 -> 000000000901383f]
<kitsune>	yay, clock skew
<Zagor>	PsycoXul: yeah, more fixes coming :)
<kitsune>	x11 uisimulator works.
<kitsune>	pretty l33t.
<Bagder>	wooo
<Bagder>	;-)
<kitsune>	heh, yeah, what can I say, I barely remember my C
<Bagder>	time to freshen up! ;-)
<kitsune>	Yeah
<kitsune>	I've got to uh, remaster some asm
<Bagder>	hehe
<Bagder>	if you stay in apps, you can safely go with C only
<kitsune>	heh.
<kitsune>	I want REALLY small stuff, though
<kitsune>	so asm would be an amusing way to go.
<kitsune>	sick, masocistic, unportable. amusing
*	PsycoXul will add a text file reader for the player soon
<kitsune>	hah. Keep a list of phone numbers or something ;p
<PsycoXul>	well write one anyways, i dunno if you guys would want my version of one :p
<PsycoXul>	kitsune: nah, to read books :p
<Bagder>	sure we do!
<kitsune>	... I prefer my books in a paper format
<kitsune>	in case I'm ever in some bind and I need something to burn.
<PsycoXul>	i don't have all my books in a paper format
<PsycoXul>	and besides
<PsycoXul>	this bookreader has a backlight! :p
<kitsune>	true
<Bagder>	hehe
<kitsune>	with accompanying theme music
<Bagder>	and it plays music
<kitsune>	what is not to love.
<PsycoXul>	yeah
<PsycoXul>	and its the size of 1 book but can hold many 
<PsycoXul>	so yeah hmm
<kitsune>	a small book
<kitsune>	a very small book :p
<PsycoXul>	does the app currently let you browse around while a songs playing?
<kitsune>	which app?
<kitsune>	archo's firmware does.
<PsycoXul>	no
<Bagder>	PsycoXul: that's the general idea at least
<PsycoXul>	the rockbox one
<PsycoXul>	heh
<kitsune>	ah
<Zagor>	PsycoXul: yup
<kitsune>	It should :p
<PsycoXul>	ok will it work now?
<kitsune>	I liked the rather limited queue function in the archos firmware.
<Zagor>	it first displays id3 info, press stop and you will get back to browsing
<kitsune>	It'd be neat to see that expanded.
<Zagor>	Bagder: could you rewrite getsonglength() to read blocks instead of single bytes?
<PsycoXul>	UIE68 at 0900442E
<Bagder>	I could take a dive into it, sure
<Zagor>	PsycoXul: oooh
<Zagor>	are you using the pure cvs code? no funny stuff of your own?
<PsycoXul>	yep
<Zagor>	strange
<Zagor>	when did you get it? immediately?
<PsycoXul>	yeah
<kitsune>	jwahaha, now I've got myself a nice little firmware compiled.
<kitsune>	easier than I thought :P
*	kitsune thanks linus greatly for his instructions
<Bagder>	yeah, they're great
*	Zagor is browsing and playing songs on his rockbox. Niiiiice.
<dwihno>	Cool
<Bagder>	rocking
<Zagor>	you can't stop playback yet :)
<dwihno>	haha
<dwihno>	good feature :)
<Linus>	We have problems with several threads using the file API though...
<Zagor>	the show MUST go on ;)
<Zagor>	yup. anyone not going to lunch now, inspect file.c :)
<kitsune>	uh oh
<kitsune>	UIE68 at 0906FA02
<Linus>	I know what it is
<kitsune>	heh
<Linus>	UIE68 is the Rx interrupt for the serial port
<kitsune>	good, 'cuz I don't.
<Linus>	The remote control
<Zagor>	we don't get it since we're using serial gdb...
<PsycoXul>	heh
<dwihno>	*knapra banan och lyssna p<> dance-beats*
<kitsune>	eh?
<Linus>	kitsune: remove the debug_init() call
<Linus>	We forgot to #ifdef DEBUG it
<kitsune>	good sir, where would I find that? ;p
<Linus>	main.c
<Linus>	in apps
<Linus>	or cvs update in 30 seconds
<Zagor>	patch checked in now
<Linus>	Zagor is committing as we speak
<kitsune>	joy, done
<dwihno>	Zagor is quite fast when it comes to patching stuff
<Zagor>	also check out the new id3.c
<Zagor>	i've commented out getsonglength() since we have a problem with that at the moment
<Bagder>	why is the byte-reading a problem?
<Zagor>	i don't know, but it doesn't work
<Zagor>	it never completes. could be a file.c problem
<Bagder>	it seems to indicate a read() problem
<Zagor>	apps/play.c updated too now :)
<Zagor>	*NOW* it should work :)
<kitsune>	all this movement and updating
<dwihno>	how many CVS-updates are commenced every day? :)
<Zagor>	varies. from 0 to 50 :)
<kitsune>	heh.
<kitsune>	manic depressive cycle
<Bagder>	we're at about 550 cvs mail totally
<Bagder>	mails
*	kitsune doesn't even bother testing now :P
<kitsune>	no chance.
<Linus>	the CHECKSYNC macro fails
<Zagor>	project statistics: http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/?group_id=44306
<kitsune>	crap
<Bagder>	Linus: ok
<Linus>	we should try to declare the header variable unsigned
<Bagder>	yeah, it might very well be it
<Linus>	It's awfully inefficient, shifting stuff bach and forth like that
<PsycoXul>	hmm
<kitsune>	well, that serial port problem is haunting me.
<Linus>	But it might very well be the file code as well
<PsycoXul>	UIE68 at 090036D4
<PsycoXul>	yeah
<Linus>	kitsune: even with the new code?
<kitsune>	it is almost like a vestigial error light
<kitsune>	yeah
<Linus>	Ok try this:
<Bagder>	Linus: most mp3 tunes only read one byte and thus do the CHECKSYNC macro only once
<kitsune>	"get pillow. go to sleep"
<Linus>	before the init call in main.c:
<dwihno>	I need a pillow to rest my feet on
<Linus>	IPRE &= 0x0fff;
<dwihno>	it's quite uncomfortable to have the feet on the desk
<kitsune>	and that is?
<Linus>	We must debug it in target...
<Linus>	kitsune: that disables the SCI1 interrupt
<kitsune>	ah
<kitsune>	whatever that is.
<kitsune>	consider me close to the end user
<kitsune>	:p
<kitsune>	just a very bored one.
<Linus>	Bagder: We must debug the songlength code in target...
<Bagder>	ues
<Bagder>	yes
<Bagder>	would help a lot
<Linus>	Bagder: I'll do that after lunch
<PsycoXul>	ROCKbox!
<Bagder>	r0ck
<Linus>	PsycoXul: C00000000L!
<PsycoXul>	woo
<PsycoXul>	it plays too
<PsycoXul>	but i don't get the id3 info thats there
<PsycoXul>	heh
<PsycoXul>	menu doesn't scroll down
<Zagor>	no there's some problem with the menu. it works in the simulator but not in target for some reason
<Zagor>	does sound settings work? try the menu button
---	Linus is now known as Linus|pizza
---	Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch
<PsycoXul>	well the volume works
<PsycoXul>	bass works
<Linus|pizza>	Please comment on the volume/bass/treble levels
<PsycoXul>	and it doesn't clip like archos' firmware's bass controlls do
<Linus|pizza>	Does it?
<PsycoXul>	at least not on this song
<Linus|pizza>	I went through some trouble to make it clip-free
<dwihno>	Bra jobbat Linus!
<dwihno>	well done
<PsycoXul>	sounds good
<Linus|pizza>	at the expense of a possibly too low volume
<PsycoXul>	though this song just stopped in the middle
<PsycoXul>	heh
<Linus|pizza>	oh
<dwihno>	:)
*	Linus|pizza runs
<PsycoXul>	heh
<dwihno>	Linus|pizza: Is the volume control better on the rockbox firmware? I mean, sometmies the lowest setting is to loud :)
<PsycoXul>	huh?
<PsycoXul>	heh
<kitsune>	well, I'm haunted by the serial port thing.
<PsycoXul>	hmm
<PsycoXul>	that fix he said works for me
<kitsune>	yeah, in main.c, exactly where do you stick it?
<PsycoXul>	he said
<PsycoXul>	<Linus> before the init call in main.c:
<kitsune>	before the first call of init
<PsycoXul>	<Linus> IPRE &= 0x0fff;
<kitsune>	line number? ;)
<PsycoXul>	there's only 1 place init() gets called
<PsycoXul>	heh
<PsycoXul>	in main
<PsycoXul>	main(void)
<kitsune>	82, in that vicinity
<PsycoXul>	{
<PsycoXul>	 here.
<PsycoXul>	 init();
<kitsune>	yeah
<PsycoXul>	etc
<kitsune>	I guessed that.
<PsycoXul>	so heh
<kitsune>	let's pray to finagle :P
<PsycoXul>	heh
<PsycoXul>	hey that time made it through most of the song
<kitsune>	the universe is trying to kill me.
<PsycoXul>	hmm
<PsycoXul>	but its locked up
<PsycoXul>	heh
<kitsune>	heh, fun
<kitsune>	UIE09
<kitsune>	at blah
<PsycoXul>	heh
<kitsune>	wow, it is morning
<kitsune>	Whilst I'm still concious I'll take a photo :P
<dwihno>	Take some photos from the interface
<dwihno>	I'd love to see it
<PsycoXul>	see what?
<kitsune>	from the what?
<dwihno>	rockbox interface
<PsycoXul>	what interface?
<PsycoXul>	its a -
<kitsune>	haha, alright
<PsycoXul>	that moves around
<PsycoXul>	:p
<PsycoXul>	otherwise its files, menu options, or whatever it is 
<PsycoXul>	and thats pretty much it :p
<PsycoXul>	the interface is the LCD and buttons :p
<dwihno>	THE LCD THEN! :)
<dwihno>	ME WANNA SEE! :)
<kitsune>	yeah, I got one of the 'new interface'
<dwihno>	:D
<dwihno>	I'd love to see! :D
<dwihno>	fix several! :D
<dwihno>	:D
<dwihno>	:)~~~~
<kitsune>	http://rei.damnsw.net/~adam/stuff/
<kitsune>	mornin?.jpg and interface.jpg
<dwihno>	heh
<dwihno>	interface ownz :)
<kitsune>	I like the flashing red error :p
<dwihno>	your car?
<kitsune>	heh, yeh
<dwihno>	sexy :)
<kitsune>	indeed.
<kitsune>	scare small children and elderly women.
<kitsune>	at once!
<kitsune>	tired...
<dwihno>	:)
<kitsune>	I suspect by the time I wake up, there will be a version 1, and if not, there should be.
<dwihno>	You crazy dude! :)
<PsycoXul>	heh
<kitsune>	heh, caffeine is good for ye.
<dwihno>	kitsune: you are crazy! LOCO! :D
<kitsune>	there isn't much to be done today
<kitsune>	so I'm fine.
<PsycoXul>	so which volume/bass/treble does the sound menu control now, the mas or the dac's
<dwihno>	kitsune: why are you up this early?
<dwihno>	(early/late)
<kitsune>	The caffiene demons got me.
<dwihno>	Good :)
<dwihno>	Caffeine is your friend
<dwihno>	Damn coworkers, they got McD lunch
<dwihno>	Well, they get fat, and I'll stay slim and fit ;D
*	kitsune imagines dwihno over a bottle of wine and some shrimp cocktail
<dwihno>	haha
<dwihno>	I hate shrimps
<dwihno>	They have this scary look
<kitsune>	heh.
<kitsune>	They're little harmless things
<PsycoXul>	hmm
<dwihno>	No way!
<dwihno>	They look all innocent and stuff, but they are PURE EVIL!
<PsycoXul>	heh if you take out the spindown in ata_init() it boots a lot faster but it never spins down heh
<kitsune>	heh
<kitsune>	that is one area I'd like to have some influence over
<kitsune>	just how the hard drive behaves.
<kitsune>	since it seems to misbehave, alot.
<dwihno>	it does?
<dwihno>	Tell me about it! On the recorder, you get the "ata: -2" error .)
<kitsune>	yeah, it seems alot slower than it could be, seeking through tracks, etc
<PsycoXul>	heh
<kitsune>	I suppose if I felt like it I could get myself a new hard drive :P
<dwihno>	:)
<kitsune>	I cannot recall which ones were recommended
<dwihno>	You can replace the disk without any hassle?
<kitsune>	uh
<dwihno>	I mean, let's say I install a 40 gig disk, that would work?
<kitsune>	yeah
<kitsune>	for all intensive purposes, it should
<kitsune>	as long as it is the same size, etc
<dwihno>	yeah
<kitsune>	physically, at least.
<dwihno>	how about power consumption?
<kitsune>	oh, I don't care about that, hell, it could even be less ;p
<dwihno>	I haven't had a look inside my recorder, but I guess the disks are some kind of low power stuff...
<kitsune>	heh
<kitsune>	the big overkill is it is like trying to suck a bathtub dry with a straw
<kitsune>	there is a huge bottleneck with USB
<PsycoXul>	they're 9.5mm laptop drives
<dwihno>	There is this sticker saying "remove this, and your warranty goes to /dev/null" :)
<kitsune>	heh
<dwihno>	PsycoXul: how about power usage?
<kitsune>	where was that?
<kitsune>	my warranty is already gone :P
<PsycoXul>	what about it? they're made for laptops so 
<dwihno>	:)
<kitsune>	there isn't a serial number on the back of mine :p
<dwihno>	evil
<dwihno>	time for some lunch quake .)
<kitsune>	it is my second one, the first one died horribly
<kitsune>	LCD, at least.
<kitsune>	how exactly does this tetris work?
<kitsune>	hmm, mini CD mp3 player
<kitsune>	funky
---	Linus|pizza is now known as Linus
<kitsune>	hola
---	Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor
<Zagor>	dwihno: the disks are standard laptop drives, no low-power special doodaas
<kitsune>	heh, UIE09 at 35B40900
<kitsune>	fun
<Linus>	wow
<Linus>	what did you do?
<kitsune>	I simply applied the change to main.c
<Linus>	ouch
<kitsune>	it could be that I'm using new versions of binutils, gcc, etc
<Linus>	how new?
<kitsune>	uh, the newest ones on ftp.gnu.org
<Linus>	3.1?
<kitsune>	yeah
<kitsune>	shall I go back a bit?
<Linus>	I don't think so
<kitsune>	hmm
<kitsune>	well, as an acolyte of murphy, I'll make sure everything that can possibly go wrong will.
---	Linus is now known as Linus|meeting
<dwihno>	meeting sucks
---	Linus|meeting is now known as Linus
<Linus>	short meeting :-)
<dwihno>	:D
<dwihno>	Meetings should be kept short! :)
<Bagder>	Zagor: what about adding a file named 'FILES' or something in each CVS module root that specify which files that should go into release tarballs?
<Bagder>	it should support whildcards, like *.[ch] etc
<Linus>	Zagor is in a meeting
<Bagder>	then you may state your opinion ;-)
<Bagder>	I want to be able to script releases
<Linus>	We must have a file list of some kind
<dwihno>	scripts rules!
<Linus>	so FILES is as good as anything
<Zagor>	Bagder: not a bad idea
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<Bagder>	why do we use both .S and .s?
<Linus>	We don't
<Bagder>	in firmware both are used
<Linus>	where?
<Bagder>	crt0.S
<Bagder>	start.s
<Linus>	start.s os obsolete
<Linus>	kill it
*	Bagder kills
<Linus>	.S means preprocess, .s means don't, BTW
<Linus>	if you assemble with the gcc frontend
<Bagder>	cool
<Bagder>	tarball gets 146023 bytes big
<Bagder>	seems to work
<Bagder>	funny spam of today:
<Bagder>	"Dear Sir/Madam, We are looking to buy waste paper of different types" ... :-)
<Zagor>	haha. i got one of those nigeria scams
<Bagder>	I like those
<Bagder>	the weird thing is people actually belive them
<dwihno>	:D
<dwihno>	What?!
<dwihno>	You mean they are FAKE?!
<Bagder>	:-)
<dwihno>	They promised me lots of cash if I sent some to them! :)
<dwihno>	We get signal
<dwihno>	How are you gentlemen?
<dwihno>	All your base are belong to us!
<Linus>	Bagder: why does the id3 code use lseek() to find out the file size?
<Bagder>	how else?
<Linus>	The file size is returned in the dirent struct
<Bagder>	afaik, there is no other way but opendir()
<Bagder>	and you want it to opendir() and find itself?
<dwihno>	hm
<Linus>	I am silly
<dwihno>	><))))8> <-- now that's sill-y ;)
<Bagder>	it could get the file size passed in
<Bagder>	but it seems like a weird api
<Linus>	indeed.
<Linus>	forget it
*	Bagder forgets
<Linus>	Bagder: how long can an id3v2 tag be, in general?
<Bagder>	I don't really know
<Linus>	100 bytes 2k?
<Linus>	or what?
<Bagder>	lemme check
<dwihno>	I think there are no limits
<Linus>	I know. But in general, they shouldn't be more than a few hundred bytes, right?
<dwihno>	nah
<dwihno>	A couple of hundred bytes is more than sufficien
<dwihno>	t
<Bagder>	Zagor: /home/dast/rockbox-build/daily-build now contains daily builds of the rockbox tarball
<Zagor>	neato
<Zagor>	all versions?
<Bagder>	full archive
<Zagor>	ah the tarball
<Bagder>	full source that is
<Bagder>	I'll make automated archos.mod files too, but I need to get the sh tools up there first
<Zagor>	they're already installed. /usr/local/sh-gcc
<Bagder>	cool
<Bagder>	then consider me on the case
<Zagor>	goodie
<Bagder>	feel free to check the tarball out to see if I've missed any important files
<Bagder>	Zagor: I figured you could make a symbolic link from some properly named directory in the rockbox web tree
<Zagor>	yep, will do.
<Zagor>	the archive looks ok
<Bagder>	goodie
<Zagor>	lseek() bugs, it turns out
<Bagder>	aha
<Zagor>	i expected the SEEK_END argument to be positive, but it's not
<Linus>	And I found an error in the getsonglength() function
<Bagder>	coolers
<Zagor>	that's why so many id3 tags couldn't be found
<Linus>	Zagor speaks about the lseek(9 bug
<Zagor>	yup
<Bagder>	yeah, that's quite a difference ;-)
<Zagor>	2002-05-27: All v1.0 code is written. We are now entering debug phase.
<Bagder>	yay!
<dwihno>	YAY!
<dwihno>	Now let's party like it's 1999 ;D
-->	ironi (irony@pcb322-03.ihh-stud.hj.se) has joined #rockbox
<Bagder>	g'day ironi
<ironi>	heya
<ironi>	i saw the webpage update
<ironi>	nice
<Zagor>	yeah, not quite as you did it but a lot better than before :)
<ironi>	yeah for sure
<ironi>	you should perhaps have a border=0 on the link to the small logo
<Bagder>	ok, daily archos.mod files are now build too
<ironi>	it has a blue frame
<Zagor>	ah, right. fixing.
<Zagor>	there
<ironi>	better =)
<ironi>	Bagder: where are they
<Zagor>	Bagder: coolers
<Zagor>	ironi: i'll fix webpage links
<Bagder>	I'm waiting for Zagor to setup the link
<ironi>	oh ok
<ironi>	cool
<ironi>	=)
<Zagor>	Bagder: when does your cronjob fire?
<ironi>	so the first version can navigate among songs and play and stop them
<ironi>	correct?
<Bagder>	1am our time
<Zagor>	ironi: no stopping yet :)
<ironi>	Zagor: hehe
<Zagor>	Bagder: do it later IMHO, like 5
<Zagor>	1am we might still be working
<Bagder>	sure
<Bagder>	6 am then ;-)
<Zagor>	good
<Bagder>	before we get to work ;-)
<Bagder>	I cvs update, build tarball, then build three target archos.mod files
<Zagor>	sounds right
<ironi>	where is the link going to be
<ironi>	on the front page?
<ironi>	or a download-section
<Zagor>	front page and on cvs page
<Bagder>	we should post it to the mailing list too
<Zagor>	a download page will be for "official versions"
<ironi>	Zagor: sounds reasonable
<ironi>	Zagor: v1.0 is official, right?
<Zagor>	yep
<ironi>	this is so cool
<ironi>	cant wait to post it on coolmp3players.com
<ironi>	oh
<ironi>	is it down
<Zagor>	haha
<Zagor>	we're not done yet, so don't post now
<ironi>	is coolmp3players down?
<Zagor>	I don't know, i'm not there very often
<Bagder>	coolmp3players.com is alive
<Bagder>	when I ping it
<ironi>	This Domain is parked by Keshet Internet Services
<dwihno>	This Domain is parked by Keshet Internet Services
<ironi>	:/
<Bagder>	hehe
<ironi>	well
<ironi>	i would love www.rockbox.org btw
<ironi>	but it is taken
<ironi>	rockboxplayer.org perhaps
<Zagor>	rockbox.org isn't really taken, it's available from 123-reg.co.uk
<Zagor>	<09>2.59 per year doesn't sound too bad
<Zagor>	i was wrong, it is taken
<Zagor>	it's just not in use
<ironi>	ok
<ironi>	i see
<ironi>	wow
<ironi>	123-reg is cheap
<Zagor>	rockbox.org is registered by "Lasting Impressons, UK"
<Zagor>	rockbox.net by one Sina Kermani, US
<Zagor>	both .net and .org are unused. what a coincidence...
-->	kitsune (~adam@c-24-118-162-179.mn.client2.attbi.com) has joined #rockbox
<ironi>	co.uk is only for companies ricght
<Zagor>	yes
<ironi>	too bad
<ironi>	very cheap, indeed
<Zagor>	well we don't want a .uk domain anyway
<ironi>	i was thinking for my own purposes
<ironi>	$15 is the cheapest i have seen on .com so far
<ironi>	well <20>9 is pretty much $15
<ironi>	www.godaddy.com
<ironi>	$9 =)
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<ironi>	*yawn*
<ironi>	done yet? =)
<Bagder>	now where's that daily-build link? ;-)
<Zagor>	coming, coming...
<ironi>	=)
<ironi>	wow i have waited for
<ironi>	this
<ironi>	hey is the api docs availale anywhere
<ironi>	sorry
<ironi>	i found it
<Bagder>	they're not very detailed
<Bagder>	we could use a hand on that
<ironi>	I would love to help but since I don't have the information on what all of them are, I can't do much
<Bagder>	many of them are POSIX look-alikes
<ironi>	ok
<ironi>	*looks up POSIX in google..*
<ironi>	=)
<Bagder>	and you can check out the code in apps, as it all uses the different APIs we have
<Bagder>	code is always the best docs ;-)
<ironi>	yea if its commente dlike linu does it i oculd do it
<ironi>	list_insert_before(reference node, The node to insert)  - Insert a LIST_NODE in a list before another node in a LIST.
<ironi>	like that
<ironi>	nothing hard
<ironi>	ut when it's not commented, it would take me a lot longer =)
<Bagder>	right
<Bagder>	we should comment the code like that
<ironi>	like linus does in the list code
<Bagder>	we should all be like Linus
<Bagder>	;-)
<ironi>	i2c_read(address, buf, count) - Read something from something
<ironi>	that what i can get out of that
<ironi>	=)
<Zagor>	still, just adding that function to the docs tells a lot
<ironi>	i see
<Linus>	What API are we documenting?
<Bagder>	we should document them all
<ironi>	Zagor: true
<Zagor>	good point. i2c doesn't need to be documented, it's not part of the api
<Bagder>	at least all for the apps
<Linus>	But it may need documenting anyway...
<ironi>	Zagor: what is part of the api
<ironi>	i could go trough it and make a list of all the functions
<Zagor>	ironi: everything the apps/ code acalls
<ironi>	ok
<ironi>	so all the .c and .h files in the apps dir?
<Zagor>	check what they call, yes
<ironi>	I can do that if you want me to. I can give it a try,a t least
<Zagor>	good
<ironi>	It can be good for me to put myself into it a bit
<ironi>	=)
<Zagor>	yup
<ironi>	cool
<ironi>	I'll get on it in an hour
<ironi>	If I manage to get it so that even I can understand, then I think it will be a good API doc
<ironi>	=)
<Bagder>	hehe
<ironi>	Bagder: thanks for answering the survey
<Bagder>	np
<ironi>	I realize the last question was a bit strange
<ironi>	but we were basing the interview on a paper that claimed that to be one of the main motives (i.e. publishing the names)
<ironi>	I thought that sounded funny so I wanted comments on it
<ironi>	I mean, to use that in commercial projects
<Bagder>	I realized that
<ironi>	Zagor: i really had use of the presentation you have me the link to, by the BCG
<ironi>	Zagor: the model of how open source work is done is great
<Zagor>	that was bagder :)
<ironi>	im describing it form 3 perspectives, structure, processes and boundaries
<ironi>	oh it was?
<Bagder>	hehe
<ironi>	ok *ehm*
<ironi>	Bagder thanks
<Bagder>	I was one of the 12 or something swedish persons participating in it
<ironi>	i mean structure is obvious, its virtual teams cooperating...processes is also obvious, it is well defiens in the model
<Zagor>	i did too
<Bagder>	hehe, that's cool
<Bagder>	haxx!
<Bagder>	:-)
<Zagor>	yup
<ironi>	but boundaries....im thinking if i could say that an OS project is limited by its participants
<Zagor>	ironi: yeah, but define "participants". users are a big part of all projects
<ironi>	there are no real predefined boundaries like in "normal" organisations
<ironi>	Zagor: true
<ironi>	by the active participants then
<Bagder>	in open source, the boundary between developers and users often get blurry
<ironi>	true
<ironi>	thats why i'm saying that the only boundaries, i.e. where the os project group ends and the rest of the world begins, is the active participants
<Bagder>	right
<ironi>	=)
<ironi>	you should read my paper
<Bagder>	I'd like to
<Zagor>	maybe we should keep the daily .mods, at least a while.
<Zagor>	oh, we do. never mind me... ;)
<Bagder>	I don't even have a removal system yet ;-)
<Zagor>	http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/daily.shtml
<Bagder>	neato
<Linus>	I would say that it is pretty early to present daily builds...
<Bagder>	yes
<Zagor>	"Release early, release often"
<Bagder>	;-)
<Bagder>	but we want to have early users too
<Bagder>	kamikaze ones ;-)
<Bagder>	lots of people just await getting something to put on their archos, now they can have it
<ironi>	i am kamikaze
<Zagor>	i'd say dwihno is the winner in the kamikaze contest so far :)
<Bagder>	hehe, he is
<Bagder>	he's in the lead
<ironi>	hehe
<ironi>	true, true
<ironi>	if i jump off a building with my rockbox, i'll beat you
<ironi>	andmyself :-P
<Bagder>	just make sure that the Archos is visible on the pictures they take of you afterwards
<Bagder>	;-)
<ironi>	hehe
<ironi>	I had a little project going, trying to boot linux of the archos (with a boot floppy)
<ironi>	i never managed to make it work though, the damn player could not be faound
<ironi>	:(
<ironi>	I compiled support for it in the boot disk kernel
<ironi>	and did everything right....well I guess it was harder than I tohught
<ironi>	figured it could be useful for ppl that have fast access in school etc, and want to download stuff nad then bring it home
<Zagor>	ironi: there's a known problem booting off an usb disk, you need to increase a timeout somewhere. search the linux-usb mailing list
<ironi>	Zagor: ah ok
<ironi>	=)
<ironi>	maybe I'll give it another try
<ironi>	i was thinking of putting a umsdos dist, like zipslack, so that the disk doens't have to be partitioned
<ironi>	bbl
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<Bagder>	I'm off for today
<Bagder>	see ya around
<Zagor>	ok, bye
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<PsycoXul>	hmm weird
<PsycoXul>	the browser's not showing a dir
<Zagor>	hum=
<Zagor>	?
<PsycoXul>	heh
<PsycoXul>	i've got this dir 'Misc-junk' on here and its not showing it
<PsycoXul>	heh
<PsycoXul>	it shows it named 'Pilots.m3u'
<PsycoXul>	and it shows 'Beck' named 'Ozzy.m3u.m' and i dunno what else
<Zagor>	odd
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<ironi>	I like living on the edge, yeah
<ironi>	yeah
<ironi>	:)
<Zagor>	hehe
<ironi>	*power on*
<ironi>	eh?
<ironi>	-MP3BITCH
<ironi>	EFL1 q   r
<ironi>	thats my display
<Linus>	so?
<Linus>	:-)
<Zagor>	do you have a catalog called MP3BITCH* ?
<Linus>	Or are you one?
<ironi>	no the drive is called that
<ironi>	i named it that in windows
<Zagor>	oh, looks like a bad bug then
<ironi>	but what is EFL1 q  r
<Zagor>	random junk from some randomly read sector, I'd guess :)
<ironi>	ok
<ironi>	so in it there is a divx folder
<PsycoXul>	yeah i get my volume label showing up as the first 'file' too
<ironi>	but the div....wait
<ironi>	lemme connect it again
<ironi>	wohooo
<ironi>	i like this
<ironi>	its already better
<ironi>	wow
<ironi>	its first now i see what great work you guys have done
<Zagor>	uh yeah, the volume label is a directory entry...
<Linus>	Major crash?
<Zagor>	i must filter it a bit :)
<ironi>	Zagor: hehe
<ironi>	also it owuld be cool to filter everything that is not mp3
<ironi>	or maybe have a toggle :-P
<PsycoXul>	heh
<PsycoXul>	Maybe have a toggle
<Zagor>	nag nag :)
<PsycoXul>	but 
<PsycoXul>	i'd rather see all my files
<PsycoXul>	i just keep them organized anyways
<ironi>	well
<Zagor>	a toggle is good
<ironi>	yeee i win
<ironi>	:-P
<PsycoXul>	there's no non-mp3 files besides playlists or album-informative filenames anywhere that i have mp3 files
<ironi>	jeez
<PsycoXul>	but besides that, other files can be handled too
<ironi>	ok it was a windows recycled folder
<ironi>	or not
<PsycoXul>	like text files
<ironi>	i have a folder called Ztuff
<PsycoXul>	at least in theory :p
<PsycoXul>	my text viewing code isn't working :/
<ironi>	nope
<ironi>	the folder called EFL1 q  r is supposed to be called Ztuff
<ironi>	funny
<ironi>	also, a convenient thing would be that the scroll loops
<Zagor>	well there is no scroll at the momenet
<ironi>	so that i dont have to go back but just keep on scrolling down
<ironi>	i mean +/-
<Zagor>	ah you mean the dirlist
<ironi>	yeah sorry
<PsycoXul>	yeah the dir list needs to be read into memory and sorted too :p
<Zagor>	yup
<ironi>	well this is so cool
<ironi>	i already like this UI more than the original archos one
<Zagor>	haha
<PsycoXul>	spinning the disk the whole time you browse isn't that cool :p
<ironi>	i wonder whether archos knows about this project
<PsycoXul>	but yeah
<ironi>	show_credits(); is indeed a very important fnction
<Zagor>	haha
<PsycoXul>	hmm damnit...
<PsycoXul>	still not working...
<ironi>	lalala
<PsycoXul>	oh well i'll mess with it later
<ironi>	is there any way i can get the files and build the mod in windows?
<ironi>	i guess there is but im looking for the easiest one
<Zagor>	ironi: it should be the same as building for linux.
<Zagor>	except everything is more painful in windows
<ironi>	hehe
<ironi>	well i do have alinux box here too
<ironi>	http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/sh-win/
<ironi>	shouldn't there be a actual page?
<Zagor>	oops :)
<Zagor>	reload
*	ironi is gone, autoaway/10m [l/on p/on]
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<Zagor>	gotta go. bye!
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<Moufle>	hi
<Moufle>	I just tried the daily release on my 20g recorder and it says ata : -4
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<kitsune>	machinae supremacy - hero
<kitsune>	http://www.penismightier.com/fenomas/japan.html
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<huevo5050>	hello you know the UIE68 at 090036D0????????????????????
<huevo5050>	its appears me always when i power on. Always except the first time that permit me to navigate a bit...
<huevo5050>	hellooooo....
<huevo5050>	???<3F><><EFBFBD>
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<PsycoXul>	heh
<adi|home>	why do ppl come in... list a prob.. then leave?
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<PsycoXul>	i dunno
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---	dw|GONE is now known as dwihno
<dwihno>	Good morning
<ironi>	mornin
<ironi>	i just came home from work
<dwihno>	All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
<ironi>	hm
<dwihno>	<-- is looking for a laptop
<dwihno>	I'm probably gonna buy myself a new one
<dwihno>	But I don't know which
<dwihno>	Help me out on this one ;D
<ironi>	i like dell latitude
<dwihno>	What's the hardware configuration?
<dwihno>	I'd like to be able to use 3D-stuff on it :)
<ironi>	well I don't know...depends
<ironi>	i just like dell latitude in general
<dwihno>	Ah, okay
<dwihno>	My friend has a dell lattitude something... Rather cute and good performance-wise...
<dwihno>	I just don't know if I want a p4 or piii processor...
<dwihno>	I mean, I'm accustomed to a AMD 800 with 512 megs of RAM
<dwihno>	(and a rather decent 3d-card)
<ironi>	i see
<ironi>	i wish i chad resources ot by myself a brand new laptop :/
<dwihno>	I sold my workstation
<dwihno>	And I'm probably gonna sell my other computer too
<dwihno>	I've passed the "I wanna play games" stage, so I just want a kickass development box
<dwihno>	which I can carry around
<ironi>	dwihno: I feel pretty much the same
<ironi>	well I dolove GTA3 though
<ironi>	:-P
<dwihno>	heh
<dwihno>	I want to be able to spank my friends in a game of Q3 every once in a while ;)
<dwihno>	without no shitty software rendering stuff
<ironi>	well there is nvidia cards for laptops
<dwihno>	I guess 256 megs of RAM might be sufficent
<dwihno>	My current workstation has a celeron 733, 256 megs of RAM, and it's quite OK
<dwihno>	Sometimes it gets slow when I run too many applications at once, but that's not too often
<ironi>	http://www.euro.dell.com/countries/se/sve/bsd/products/model_latit_latit_c840.htm
<ironi>	that is a very very mean machine
<ironi>	but very very expensive too
<ironi>	64 mb geforce 4 =)
<dwihno>	a bit expensive :)
<dwihno>	I guess the pricing range is >24 000 SEK
<dwihno>	But no more! :)
<dwihno>	(including VAT and taxes)
<ironi>	http://www.euro.dell.com/countries/se/sve/dhs/products/model_inspn_inspn_2650.htm
<ironi>	maybe that one
<ironi>	i think dell in general is a good choice
<ironi>	its not very expensive for what you get
<dwihno>	hm
<dwihno>	true
<ironi>	comparing to ex. compaq evo
<dwihno>	I'm gonna try to configure it
<dwihno>	hm
<dwihno>	Nice price, yup
<dwihno>	Even with 256 megs of RAM
<ironi>	it is, isn't it.
<dwihno>	yup
<dwihno>	Is 14" and 15.1" a big diff?
<ironi>	well 2.7 cm diagonally
<ironi>	you decide
<dwihno>	that's a bunch
<dwihno>	hm
<ironi>	:)
<ironi>	question is if its worth a lot
<dwihno>	yeah
<dwihno>	As long as it does 1024x768 ;)
<ironi>	it does for sure
<ironi>	if not more
<dwihno>	What would you choose - a free DVD or a free CD-RW thingy?
<ironi>	well are you going to watch dvd's or burn cd's?
<ironi>	=)
<dwihno>	I once saw a DVD disc at my friends' place ;)
<dwihno>	Burn CD's, I presume ;)
<ironi>	its kinda cheap for being a p4 isnt it
<dwihno>	Final price tag: 19,419
<dwihno>	yeah
<dwihno>	sure is
<dwihno>	(that is, with 256 megs of RAM, and 16 geforce2-go card)
<ironi>	21.929 isnt it?
<dwihno>	hm
<dwihno>	ah, missed the buttons ;)
<dwihno>	being DDR memory too...
<ironi>	but you should be able to get it w/o ms works and windows xp
<dwihno>	you think so?
<ironi>	well why wouldn't you, I mean if you are not going to use the crap
<dwihno>	yeah
<ironi>	(or install your own free copy)
<ironi>	ms works, who uses that anyway
<ironi>	or xp home deition
<dwihno>	I don't even use the office suite
<dwihno>	DOCBOOK POWER! ;D
<ironi>	damn its a really nice price machine
<ironi>	gets me wondering if there is a catch anywhere
<dwihno>	Dell has the advantage of selling their own computers
<dwihno>	That makes it possible to lower the prices
<dwihno>	I'd like to see some bigger images of the computer
<ironi>	true
<ironi>	hey did you check the 400:- on-line purchase rebate :-P
<dwihno>	hehe
<dwihno>	I will not purchase it before the 29th ;)
<ironi>	=)
<ironi>	well well
<ironi>	certainly a worthy candidate in your quest for a new laptop
<dwihno>	help me to find some fullscreen images of the model please :)
<dwihno>	(it must be cute!) :)
<ironi>	http://www.techtv.com/graphics/library/3381317.jpg
<ironi>	http://www.techtv.com/news/computing/story/0,24195,3382322,00.html
<ironi>	it says "disappointing performance"
<dwihno>	it does?
<ironi>	http://www.pcmag.com/article/0,2997,s=1565&a=25886,00.asp
<dwihno>	hmm
<dwihno>	well, you found the catch ;)
<dwihno>	I'm just wondering how the display is handling lower resolutions
<dwihno>	Let's say, 800x600, when I want to play FPS games...
<dwihno>	Will it stretch the screen or just center the image?
<dwihno>	I have to say I like having everything built-in
<ironi>	good question
<dwihno>	At least, both floppy and CD reader thingy
<ironi>	but it can do 27 fps in 1024x768 in q3
<ironi>	it said in one report
<ironi>	of the ones i pasted
<dwihno>	Yeah, but 27FPS is painfully slow! :)
<ironi>	is it? ok.
<dwihno>	:)
<ironi>	well it is a laptop
<ironi>	=)
<dwihno>	I think so
<dwihno>	yeah
<ironi>	i thought the eye cant recognize anything over 25
<ironi>	but i am probably wrong
<dwihno>	If you can live with the downsides, it's a great laptop
<ironi>	you get a lot for the money i believe
<dwihno>	yeah
<dwihno>	Too bad I'm not able to order it rightaway, that 400:- rebate would be nice ;)
<dwihno>	But you still get to switch the CD-ROM for a DVD or CD-RW without an extra fee :)
<dwihno>	I _WAS_ considering one of those "cappuchino PC's" as seen on thinkgeek.com
<dwihno>	but it was a bit expensive considering what you get
<ironi>	well i have to sleep an hour before class
<ironi>	been up since 10 am yesterday
<dwihno>	oof
<ironi>	except 1 hour of sleep between 20and 21
<ironi>	i worked 22-07
<dwihno>	I slept between 18-24, and 01-05 :)
<ironi>	hehe
<ironi>	ok later
*	ironi is gone, zzz [l/on p/on]
<dwihno>	later
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<dwihno>	God morgon!
<dwihno>	Guten morgen
<dwihno>	Bienvenue!
<Bagder>	morrn
<dwihno>	:D
<dwihno>	1 2 3 jobba jobba jobba! :)
<Bagder>	the daily build didn't work quite as it should
<Bagder>	now it does
<dwihno>	on error goto 0 :_)
<dwihno>	:-)
<dwihno>	You can call me Mr. ASP
<Bagder>	hah
<dwihno>	But PLEASE, don't hate me! ;D
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*	adam waves
---	adam is now known as kitsune
<Bagder>	hey
<kitsune>	heya
<dwihno>	aye!Q
*	kitsune listens to some funky music
<kitsune>	who brought up Machinae Supremacy?
<Bagder>	Linus used that for his initial attempts on the mpeg code, I don't know how he found it
<kitsune>	in any regard, I was supremely impressed by their mp3s :p
<kitsune>	I also appreciated the ogg files ;p
<kitsune>	amusing
<dwihno>	GAYNEZSS!
<dwihno>	DAMN ASP GAYNESS!
<kitsune>	eh?
<dwihno>	ASP is the pure evil gayness!
<kitsune>	I'm spreading the music around my standard IRC channels :P
<kitsune>	heh.
<Bagder>	:-)
<kitsune>	I use PHP myself.
<Bagder>	dwihno: like we couldn't tell that even without looking at it! ;-)
<dwihno>	:-)
<dwihno>	It gave me some stupid exception on 0-size files
<dwihno>	damn gayness ASP!
<kitsune>	why can't debian use rsync for their apt setup
<dwihno>	What's rsync?
<kitsune>	it is a fairly cool system
<dwihno>	I never learned what it is
<Bagder>	its a file mirroring protocol/server thing
<kitsune>	heh, rsync finds differences and mirrors
<kitsune>	yeah
<kitsune>	it is pretty efficient
<dwihno>	smart
<kitsune>	rather than replacing a whole file, I'd be selective.
<Bagder>	rsync is cool indeed
<kitsune>	I don't see what the disadvantage
<kitsune>	perhaps CPU usage, but that is > than bandwidth
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<dwihno>	yeah
<kitsune>	tina, you need to buy one of these jukebox things :P
<tina>	oh?
<Bagder>	kitsune: the only drawback would be that it uses a slightly less standard protocol
<kitsune>	yeah
<kitsune>	they rock
<kitsune>	Bagder - hah, I suppose
<kitsune>	Bagder - why not keep the old protocol around (ftp/http), and make (rsync) a special option
<dwihno>	they rock - with the rockbox ;)
<kitsune>	heh
<kitsune>	I'll give rockbox alot more time before I use it as a full replacement
<Bagder>	kitsune: right
<dwihno>	Yeah, but it's fun to test
<dwihno>	<-- was the FIRST to test it on the recorder ;D
<kitsune>	heh
<kitsune>	I don't see why anyone would want to use wavs on the thing :P
<kitsune>	it is easy enough to encode them as mp3s, and they're smaller (which makes a differnece for people on dialup)
<tina>	heh, dialup... I remember that nightmare
<dwihno>	dialup is cool! :D
<kitsune>	heh
<kitsune>	I've had a hankering to install a modem in my box in my room
<kitsune>	then I could dialup to it from anything :p
<dwihno>	I remember using linux to share internet when I was a kid ;)
<kitsune>	heh
<dwihno>	(over a modem)
<tina>	yeah... download an mp3... go take a shower... comeback... halfway done
<kitsune>	nightmare
<kitsune>	it shouldn't be that slow tina
<kitsune>	I'll teach you how to use *nix someday :P
<kitsune>	then you can make use of some automation
<tina>	I had a crappy computer two
<tina>	yey
<tina>	*too
<kitsune>	heh, Linux would be awesome on any old machine :P
<kitsune>	I ran it on a Quadra 700, 25mhz Mac
<Bagder>	RIAA sued audiagalaxy now, we'll see how much longer it'll be around
<tina>	it wasn't that old
<kitsune>	hah
<kitsune>	Bagder - Oh well.
<kitsune>	I never used AG
<Bagder>	AG is just the best
<kitsune>	ah
<Bagder>	for mp3s
<kitsune>	I think that is a problem with the current state of the american legal system
<kitsune>	it is setting precedents that people in the future will regret.
<kitsune>	:P
<kitsune>	because it is new technology, and I highly doubt the recording industry understands just how useful it is.
<dwihno>	Only 1337 people understands ;)
<kitsune>	i.e. I learned about bands that I would of NEVER heard of through the Internet, while the radio/stores only can provide music to fit the tastes of the lowest common denominator
<kitsune>	which, where I live, for my age group, consists of bad 'best of albums', nu-metal bands that are whinier than hell, etc.
<kitsune>	As my Finnish bud Virtu would say, it is all part of American capitalistic imperialisn.
<kitsune>	s/n/m/g
<Bagder>	hehe
<dwihno>	Virtulainen? Mustalaiset? Sillis?
<kitsune>	eh?
*	Bagder looks at dwihno
<kitsune>	He lives in some place called Oulu, or something
*	dwihno looks at his almighty socks
<kitsune>	went to the university of Oulu, dealt in a project involving physical responses in virtual reality
<kitsune>	socks of odor +2?
<dwihno>	Hehe
<dwihno>	they smell nice
<tina>	heh
<dwihno>	Like newly sprung roses
<kitsune>	heh, Socks of Galadrial? ;p
<dwihno>	<-- has excellent foot odor :D
*	kitsune is in an Angband mood
<kitsune>	that would be a sick game to port to a palmtop
<dwihno>	angband?
<kitsune>	and the guy who maintains the zangband packages for Debian hasn't updated them in a long time
<kitsune>	yeah, open source roguelike game
<kitsune>	I played it a few years ago
<kitsune>	http://thangorodrim.angband.org
<kitsune>	with some monkeying with the Makefile, you should be able to compile it on any *nix box :p
<dwihno>	hey, I want some screenshots! :)
<kitsune>	heh
<kitsune>	it isn't impressive, graphically
<kitsune>	but they have some :p
<tina>	oh, come on... the @... the @!
<kitsune>	I generally play it in ascii mode, heh
<dwihno>	eww! :)
<dwihno>	Are you still living in the 70's? :)
<kitsune>	heh, it is kind of cool
<kitsune>	yeah
<kitsune>	I am, actually
<dwihno>	Ah, you live in finland? :) Or poland? :)
<dwihno>	That would explain it ;)
<kitsune>	heh
<kitsune>	time warp
<dwihno>	Finns are stuck in the 80's
<kitsune>	actually, the perk of the game is A) you don't have to use a mouse
<kitsune>	B) You don't need to have a graphics card per se
<kitsune>	C) You can be killed my star spawns of cthulhu
<kitsune>	er, by
<tina>	heh
<kitsune>	my old High Elven Priest kicked the crap out of them though
<kitsune>	Parsec is a slightly more modern game
<kitsune>	I think of it as a reincarnated xpilot
<kitsune>	www.parsec.org
<kitsune>	unfortunately, it isn't open source
<kitsune>	but it will be, perhaps, when they finish with it :p
<kitsune>	since it is non-commercial.
<Bagder>	weird doing non-commercial things non open source
<kitsune>	not really
<kitsune>	they have a tight group of developers
*	Bagder is very pro open source
<kitsune>	yeah
<kitsune>	ftp://parsec.cg.tuwien.ac.at/pub/parsec_wallpaper2_1024.jpg
<kitsune>	They like to waste their time NOT working on the client/server code making cool art from their ship models :P
<kitsune>	I'd say the controls were reminiscent of wing commander of yore
<kitsune>	slightly more complicated
<kitsune>	the universe will never have enough phallus shaped spacecraft
<kitsune>	isn't it sort of early in sweden?
<Bagder>	08:28 am
<kitsune>	ah
<kitsune>	GMT +1
<kitsune>	and tina needs to learn how to change her Real Name :P
<Bagder>	+2 right now actually, we're on DST
<tina>	eh
<kitsune>	"Matthew Syx"
<tina>	shut up
<kitsune>	heh.
<tina>	I win
<kitsune>	two comments I've received on the jukebox studio 20: "It holds THAT much!?" and "It's heavy"
<kitsune>	?
<kitsune>	got any decent mp3s to upload, tina?
<kitsune>	you got like 120 mbs from my box ;p
<tina>	hmm... not really... the only stuff I've made an effort to get myself is cowboy bebop songs
<kitsune>	I could of helped you earlier
<tina>	eh... oh well
<kitsune>	I had all the CDs + the Knocking on Heaven's door soundtrack
<kitsune>	:p
<tina>	I'll have to go through and see if there are any songs that have fallen through the cracks
<dwihno>	kitsune: I'll give you my comment: IT KICKS ARSE!
<kitsune>	heh, I've had mixed feelings
<kitsune>	mine has alot of goofy hardware issues
<dwihno>	Oh?
<kitsune>	my first one died
<kitsune>	but thankfully, I got another :P
<kitsune>	*shrugs*
<dwihno>	hmm
<dwihno>	strang<6E>
<kitsune>	It is has generally been more better than for worse, of course
<dwihno>	what model?
<kitsune>	the real advantage is I don't need to buy CDs anymore
<kitsune>	I've got a studio 20
<dwihno>	mkay
<kitsune>	I've been thinking of getting a new HD for it
<dwihno>	Once I got the recorder I can't even think about having a 2 line char display
<kitsune>	which would be pretty cheap in consideration
<dwihno>	yeah
<dwihno>	Unless it's locked, you can buy gigantic HD's :)
<kitsune>	heh, how many lines does the recorder have?
<Bagder>	64 pixels
<kitsune>	ah
<dwihno>	But why wouldn't 20 gb be enough? ;)
<dwihno>	It's a bitmap display
<kitsune>	dwihno - I'd get a faster, better one :P
<dwihno>	mkay
<dwihno>	well, why faster?
<kitsune>	heh
<kitsune>	eh, no real reasons
<dwihno>	faster = more power consumption
<kitsune>	heh, I've got lots of rechargeables ;p
<Bagder>	it'd need shorter time to read the same data, so it migth save batteries too...
<kitsune>	lower seek times, for one
<kitsune>	I don't know how the HD cache reads
<dwihno>	me neither, I'm no techno geek :)
<kitsune>	er, factors into the equation
<dwihno>	1+1=2 - period :)
<kitsune>	oh well
<kitsune>	if this thing has a nice head crash, I'll have an excuse to get a new one
<kitsune>	and I'm not to afraid of opening the box up
<dwihno>	Warranties are for sissies? ;)
<kitsune>	if not, I'll just wait a few months, and pickup a nice equivalent drive for about the same price
<kitsune>	heh, I already exchanged one
<dwihno>	*connect the power supply to the recorder thingy*
<kitsune>	my current one doesn't even have a serial number
<dwihno>	it doesn't?
<kitsune>	yeah
<dwihno>	I got one! I got one! :D
<kitsune>	heh, I had one
<kitsune>	then I got a new box
<dwihno>	I bet it was a replacement unit
<kitsune>	I've been interested in that new 20 gig recorder
<kitsune>	dwihno - yeah, obviously ;p
<dwihno>	20 gig recorder is pr0n'ish
<kitsune>	heh
<kitsune>	I suspect they'd have shaken even more bugs out of the design :p
<dwihno>	I bet
<kitsune>	and the USB2 is a nice feature
<Bagder>	usb2 rocks
<Bagder>	I can fill my recorder in an hour or so;-)
<kitsune>	I'd need to get a new card, and figure out how to get it working in Linux
<kitsune>	hah
<Bagder>	works like a charm on linux
<dwihno>	Bagder: Well, USB2 is nice for "the first fill", otherwise, USB1 is good enough for me ;)
<kitsune>	hmm
<kitsune>	what kernel?
*	kitsune wonders what tina is doing.
<Bagder>	kitsune: I use 2.4.18
<kitsune>	as do I
<kitsune>	with some funky patches :P
<tina>	typing
<Bagder>	kitsune: you just need a usb2 patch
<dwihno>	:D
<kitsune>	ah, good
<dwihno>	Funky patches(tm)
<Bagder>	kitsune: the recorder uses the ISD300, which makes it look like a "standard" usb-storage device
<kitsune>	ISD200 you mean?
<tina>	I had to write a play for english
<kitsune>	tina, can I be an actor? ;p
<Bagder>	kitsune: no, 200 is the usb1.1 the player/studio use
<kitsune>	ah
<kitsune>	heh
<kitsune>	They need a new numbering scheme :P
<tina>	no, it's for my class only
<dwihno>	Bagder: Hmm, is the ISD200 driver compatible with the 300? :)
<Bagder>	dwihno: no
<kitsune>	heh
<Bagder>	there's no need for a "special" driver for the isd300
<dwihno>	I was just thinking about Bj<42>rn's driver
<dwihno>	mkay
<tina>	I think we are performing it in two days
<kitsune>	heh
<Bagder>	I don't even build with Bj<42>rn's driver to talk to my recorder
<kitsune>	I'd really like to crack this little box open
<dwihno>	<-- listens to some chilled Dire Straits beats on his 'REK<45><4B><EFBFBD>RD<52><44><EFBFBD>R' :D
<dwihno>	kitsune: There are some pretty nifty howto docs on the rockbox pages
<kitsune>	yeah, I've been watching it since I got my original box back in december
*	Bagder counts to 108 subscribers of the rockbox mailing list right now
<kitsune>	heh
<kitsune>	I'll join up
<dwihno>	'perform some basic (in)sanity checks
<dwihno>	I LOVE commenting my code! :D
<kitsune>	mail address?
<Bagder>	send a message to majordomo@cool.haxx.se with the words "subscribe rockbox" in the body. 
<kitsune>	majordomo@bjorn.haxx.se
<kitsune>	ah, okay
<kitsune>	Yeah, I've done this :p
<dwihno>	I'm gonna do that too
<kitsune>	god I love running my own e-mail server :P
<kitsune>	it is nice and fast
<dwihno>	:)
<kitsune>	the open source movement, or more linux in the scheme of things, is quite cool :P
<kitsune>	I've got alot of software, that does alot of things, each quite customizable.
<kitsune>	and then there is emacs.
<kitsune>	which does everything, sickly.
*	Bagder practicly lives in emacs
<kitsune>	yeah
<kitsune>	that is what I mean ;p
<kitsune>	it does everything
*	kitsune uses that, or vim. Generally dependent on mood, and which box I'm using :p
<kitsune>	Virtu the mad finn uses emacs, alot.
<kitsune>	and tina has no idea what we're talking about.
<Bagder>	I use emacs 8-9 hours a day at work
<tina>	hah, only a page and three quarters to go
<dwihno>	Virtu?! Who the heck is virtu?
<Bagder>	then some 2-3 hours a day on spare time hacking
<dwihno>	I use VIM ;D
<kitsune>	heh, I'll find his webpage
<kitsune>	yeah, if I had a choice between emacs and vim, I'd go for the latter
<tina>	I would have some idea if I were paying attention
<dwihno>	Well, as always, people should use the editor they want, even if that would be edlin ;)
<kitsune>	heh.
<kitsune>	edlin
<kitsune>	masocists
<Bagder>	time for more coffee
<kitsune>	he works with some pretty cool sounding stuff :P
<kitsune>	http://www.immersion.com/products/3d/interaction/digiloop.shtml
<kitsune>	http://tols16.oulu.fi/~mhalttun/ - but he is a weirdo
<dwihno>	he looks scary
<kitsune>	He's harmless
<tina>	that's what they all say
<dwihno>	tina: He's a scary dude, huh?
<kitsune>	except for the whole bondage thing, but that is his girlfriend too :p
*	kitsune is kidding
<tina>	I dunno
<tina>	who are you talking about
<kitsune>	the URL I posted
<kitsune>	and why the heck doesn't archos open source their firmware
<kitsune>	it wouldn't really hurt them, since they're trying to sell hardware :P
<tina>	he may seem harmless, but you can never quite tell
<kitsune>	heh.
<dwihno>	kitsune: One word. CONTROL.
<dwihno>	If they develop under a closed box, they can do whatever they want
<kitsune>	heh
<Bagder>	and then don't have to show the world their crappy code :-)
<Bagder>	they
<kitsune>	true
<kitsune>	albeit 95% of the world wouldn't care ;)
<kitsune>	well, more than that.
<Bagder>	very true
<kitsune>	we need more hackers on this earth
<kitsune>	like ol' capn' crunch of yore
<Bagder>	the fact that they even scramble the binary indicates that they actually tried a bit further to disclose their stuff
<kitsune>	I've had the desire to take control over the new 'highway messaging system' :p
<kitsune>	I know they get their messages from some location or another, now how they get there, that would be the important aspect :p
<kitsune>	Bagder - heh, wrong attitude.
<kitsune>	okay, I think I've found the culprit to my mysterious problems with my juke :p
<kitsune>	hardware wise at least
<kitsune>	whenever I have the headphone plugged into it's jack, pressure to one side will cause the juke to suddenly powerdown
<kitsune>	I plugged it into the line out, no more problem
<kitsune>	exactly what purpose does this vestigial Line IN port on the Jukebox serve?
<Bagder>	no clue
<dwihno>	secret thingy?
<kitsune>	heh
<kitsune>	making Line IN a serial port, makes sense :p
<kitsune>	remote debugging, heh
<kitsune>	or a terminal for Linux? ;)
<kitsune>	Linux on one of these things would be sick, and wrong.
<ironi>	*yawn*
<Bagder>	morning ironi
<kitsune>	heh
<kitsune>	2 AM here
<kitsune>	howdy ironi
<ironi>	working nights is hell.
<ironi>	Bagder: hi
<ironi>	i've slept 2 hours in total in 24 hours
<dwihno>	YAY! :D
<kitsune>	Any particular reason this project has so many swedish folk in it? ;p
<ironi>	1 hour now, 1 hour last night
<dwihno>	Sleeping is for wussies :)
<dwihno>	has it already been 1 hour? :)
<dwihno>	heh
<ironi>	kitsune: cause swedish people are cool and like audio gadgets
<kitsune>	yeah, I guessed that
<ironi>	dwihno: yup, 1<>
<ironi>	1<>
*	kitsune will in turn search for appropriate console fonts :p
<kitsune>	all in the name of internationalization
<dwihno>	May 28 Majordomo@cool. (  32) Welcome to rockbox
<dwihno>	Yay
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<kitsune>	heya
<Bagder>	morning Z
<Zagor>	hi
<Zagor>	noticed we've got a bug report... i meant to comment on that on the daily page, but was too slow :)
<Bagder>	the daily builds this morning kind of didn't work out properly so they're the same as yesterday
<Zagor>	ok
<Bagder>	btw, we might consider adding some kind of version string in the software so that we can display version in a running rockbox
<Bagder>	s/might/should
<Zagor>	yes
<dwihno>	Hej Z
---	kitsune is now known as adam
*	adam makes a silly face at nickserv
<adam>	I wish there was no such madness
<Bagder>	got an interesting compiler error:
*	adam prefers IRC by contention
<Bagder>	"If you cannot alter your program to avoid this failure, please contact your supplier"
<Zagor>	haha
*	Bagder curses his compiler
<adam>	heh
<adam>	what compiler? ;p
<Bagder>	armcc
<adam>	ah
<Bagder>	Norcroft
<adam>	I was guessing it wasn't gcc ;p
<adam>	"If you cannot alter your program to avoid this failure, THERE IS NO WARRANTY HAHAHAHAHA"
<adam>	I doubt the FSF would be that evil.
<Bagder>	silly compiler indeed
<Bagder>	I just moved a few #include lines and it worked again
<adam>	wow, time stamps in the future
<adam>	I should seriously set my clock a few years ahead, then everyone else would get clock skew :P
<adam>	Alright, UIE09, any idea what summons that crash?
*	ironi is gone, uni [l/on p/on]
<Bagder>	adam: you ran the rockbox image?
<adam>	heh, I compiled a firmware module from the source tar.gz
<Bagder>	ok
<Bagder>	we need to figure out what UIE09 is
<adam>	heh
<adam>	I've got a flukey juke
<adam>	it should find lots of problems :P
<Bagder>	Zagor: what kind of exception number is that UIE one? It isn't the "vector number" is it?
<adam>	hah, 'curl' is developed by haxx too?
<Bagder>	damn right
*	Bagder spends far too much time on curl
<adam>	heh
<adam>	I'll take a peek
<Bagder>	curl is my contribution to most linux distribs
<adam>	nice long man page
<adam>	;p
<Bagder>	Bj<42>rn got into them with his linux driver ;-)
<Zagor>	isd200 is mine
<adam>	heh
<adam>	wow, I didn't even bother /whois'ing
*	adam is impressed :p
*	Bagder bows
<adam>	ISD200 has served me well.
<Zagor>	09 is CPUAE
<adam>	CPUAE?
<Bagder>	address error
<Zagor>	yup
<adam>	hmm
<adam>	not healthy.
<Zagor>	they're all listed in system.c
<Bagder>	aha
<adam>	then in I go
<Bagder>	adam: you got that right away?
<adam>	heh, Bagder - it comes after UIE68
<adam>	UIE68 goes away when I take out my headphones from the jack and startup without em.
<Zagor>	adam: yeah, we're apparently not setting up the serial port properly
<adam>	heh.
<Bagder>	Zagor: wasn't that 68 error fixed yesterday?
<adam>	well, consider me about the closest person you can find to a generic end user.
<adam>	totally useless ;p
<Bagder>	Zagor: remember that adam is using the daily tarball that doesn't contain the fixes of yesterday
<adam>	heh, I can use the latest cvs
<dwihno>	:w
<dwihno>	oops
<adam>	if I'm able to duplicate them.
<Bagder>	cvs is always better
<adam>	yeah
<adam>	and checking them out rigth now.
<adam>	I suppose it is a necessary evil
<adam>	heh
<Bagder>	yeah, to survive on the edge you need special tools to keep the balance ;-)
<adam>	system.c is about as useful to me as an egyptian hierloglyphic serial terminal
<adam>	heh
<adam>	I think the more complex and esoteric a program gets, the more magic power is imbued within each binary
<adam>	i.e. apache mod_rewrite
<adam>	doesn't seem very user friendly, and it isn't but it does some really neat stuff
<adam>	heh, exactly why did archos take the liberty to create 'firmware installer' programs?
<Zagor>	good question. maybe drag-and-dropping a file is too difficult
<Zagor>	we're actually trying to make the code accessible even for non-wizards. system.c is an exception, unfortunately
<adam>	sad world.
<adam>	heh
<adam>	well, I need something to get confused and disturbed by
<adam>	and I'm learning perl, so uh, I should get used to really confusing structures :p
<Zagor>	perl is nice
<adam>	heh, swiss army chainsaw, essentially
*	Bagder wears his RSA-in-perl t-shirt today
<adam>	is that the dolphin one?
<Bagder>	yeps
<adam>	heh, cool shirt.
<dwihno>	You damn geeks :)
<adam>	oh well.
<adam>	I'd get the license plate 'slack'
<Zagor>	me, geek? noooo....
<adam>	to show my love of the lazy system administrator mentality
<adam>	laziness is what leads to innovative new ways to waste time and automate :p
<dwihno>	automate :)
<dwihno>	I love that word
<adam>	it makes me think of the borg
<adam>	but to me, that basically means abuse of cron, sleep, batch, etc
<dwihno>	cron is your friend! :)
<adam>	yes
<dwihno>	Who is using the computer during nighttime? :)
<dwihno>	No one! :D
<adam>	well, I am
<dwihno>	You are actually giving the computer something to do! YOU'RE DOING A GOOD THING! :)
<adam>	well, lots of people are ;p
<adam>	if it is a server
<adam>	the script kiddies want to break in whilst you're at lunch
<dwihno>	Not when normal people are asleep
<adam>	heh, the world is round ;)
<Bagder>	my computer computes RC5 all the time ;-)
<adam>	#ev has demonstrated that fact by having a steady population all throughout the day
<adam>	basically a cluster of people in Australia/New Zealand, a gaggle in North America, and quite a few in Europe.
<tina>	oh, the crazy new Zealanders
<adam>	yeh, them
<Bagder>	our coffee machine is broken *again*
<adam>	heh.
*	Bagder runs off to find a working coffee machine and fill up
<dwihno>	Mission: impossible
<adam>	I should make it a goal to keep my load average at 1.0 at all times.
<dwihno>	Good morning, mr Phelps
<adam>	there was this interesting project tainted by commercialization
<Zagor>	adam: dnetc is good for that :)
<adam>	a research group testing cancer drugs wanting major distributed computing power
<adam>	Intel of course stomped in and gave it to them, in the form of a friendly, close sourced, Windows only program :p
<dwihno>	Zagor: In my mind, dnetc is just helping some fishy government agency
<adam>	I suppose as long as there is some benefit research wise, I'm fine, but I'd rather have something a bit more like seti@home
<adam>	heh
<adam>	The NSA can afford billion dollar computers.
<adam>	If they can afford billion dollar satellites :p
<Zagor>	dwihno: government? they are doing exactly the opposite
<adam>	I'm sure they have very little problems with laying the smack down on any code.
<dwihno>	Zagor: That's what they want YOU to think! :)
<adam>	heh.
<adam>	I think the Internet should use cockney rhyming slang to encrypt :p
<PsycoXul>	governments aren't behind much shit besides what you see
<PsycoXul>	the big conspiracies are in the multinational corporations, and other organizations we don't even know about :p
<adam>	heh
<adam>	like Greenpeace
<adam>	they want to save the trees and stuff.
<tina>	or do they?
<adam>	hmm
<adam>	I think I'll degrade to the point where I'll be saying "Is it safe?" to random people I glide by in the streets.
<adam>	Or take on Finagle's Seventh Law: "The perversity of the Universe tends towards a maximum"
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<adam>	hey Linus
<Linus>	yo!
<adam>	started listening to Machinae Supremacy
<adam>	fucking awesome. :p
<Linus>	Indeed!
<adam>	Tina likes them as well :p
<Zagor>	yeah, they're really good
<adam>	heh, I'll share them with my other musical comrades.
<adam>	they've got a link on their site to a commodore 64 web server
<adam>	which strikes me as a major hack.
<Linus>	C64 is still the ultimate computing platform... :-)
<adam>	heh.
<tina>	I am tired... sleep I go
<adam>	You've got 3 hours to sleep.
<tina>	hmm, is it even worth it
<adam>	I tend to feel worse if I do sleep for 2 hours :p
<adam>	than if I hadn't slept at all
<tina>	yeah, but I have to write two more papers tomarrow
*	adam has to run to the U today
<adam>	but nothing else :P
<adam>	goodnight, if you're going
<tina>	I should stay up for freakazoid
<adam>	...
<adam>	caffeine will aid you in that endeavour.
<tina>	true
<adam>	I personally get a little paranoid about drinking it :p
<adam>	since I can recall one time where I stayed up for about 2 days after with about a dozen cups of coffee :p
<adam>	and started to have heart palpations :P
<tina>	I usually get paranoid, only if I am drinking it for awake purpuses
<adam>	I meant it from the standpoint of physical health ;p
<tina>	ah
<adam>	I don't think the world is out to kill me any more than it is right now.
<tina>	oh?
<adam>	Did you see the caffeinated soap on thinkgeek.com?
<tina>	I didn't see it, but I observed some of the conversation
<adam>	heh.
<adam>	Sick idea :P
<tina>	yeah
<tina>	at least I don't think I have any finals tomarrow
<adam>	thanks to the internet, about half of my music originates from scandinavia :P
<tina>	yey
<adam>	i.e. Finnish/Swedish metal :p
<adam>	of various subgenres
<tina>	hai
<dwihno>	hojt
<adam>	stupid library: Guns of the South is 'In Transit'
<adam>	whatever that means
*	adam notes knowledge of *nix is of much use :P
<tina>	that means it's going from one library to the one you reserved it to
<adam>	I can imagine a time when people actually dialed into the library to browse the net :P
<tina>	are you talking about the pre internet days?
<adam>	well, it wouldn't be 'pre-internet' per se
<adam>	I can't see any other reason they'd offer lynx :P
<tina>	yeah, the thing that you could go into without internet service
<adam>	uh...?
<tina>	all you needed was a modem
<tina>	and lots of patience
<adam>	oh well.
<adam>	you ever read Guns of the South?
<tina>	nope
<adam>	Civil War, 'cept this time the Confederates had AK-47s
<adam>	:p
<adam>	I suppose you can imagine the consequences of that.
<tina>	fun fun
<tina>	yes, perhaps there might have been a few consiquences
<tina>	...yup
<adam>	hmm, must find more music...
<tina>	indeed
<tina>	how do you find this stuff anyway?
<adam>	heh, word of mouth, websites, etc
<adam>	google.com is good :P
<tina>	ah
<adam>	I was just lucky that Linus mentioned Machinae Supremacy
<tina>	ah
*	adam makes his site lynx friendly again
<adam>	:p
<dwihno>	URL?
<adam>	rei.damnsw.net
*	tina serches for information, but fails
<adam>	heh
<adam>	information on what?
<adam>	oh crap, tomorrow I've got a lug meeting :P
<dwihno>	www.klitta.nu
<dwihno>	And some beta design stuff @ www.klitta.nu/k/
<adam>	heh.
<adam>	It'd be great if I could read swedish
<adam>	:P
<adam>	heh, mutable size boobies
<dwihno>	:)
<adam>	I've got my forum
<dwihno>	The next version is vector based and looks pretty neat ;D
<adam>	I want to basically get text-only tools setup
<adam>	I've seen a bbs a friend was using, which appealed slightly
<adam>	the more ancient, archaic, and basic the technology behind it, the more satisfaction I gain :P
<tina>	it's for my world religion class
<adam>	This is all I have to give you for world religions:
<adam>	http://rei.damnsw.net/~adam/RoboChrist_sungod.jpg
<tina>	heh
<dwihno>	hah
<tina>	why did I have to pick such a secluded religion
<adam>	because you're silly? ;p
<adam>	Did you pick Hare Krishna or something?
<tina>	that, and all the major ones were taken
<tina>	no, wicca
<adam>	or Amita Buddhism.
<adam>	heh
<adam>	Wicca, very simple
<adam>	take overweight women, add bastardized celtic rituals, and remove showers.
<adam>	:p
<dwihno>	:)
<dwihno>	s/overweight/american/
<adam>	hah
<adam>	yeah
<tina>	yeah, try finding a creation story from an ancient religion that was pretty much wiped out when the saxons arived in britain
<adam>	essentially equivalent
<adam>	make one up!
<PsycoXul>	enuma elish
<tina>	eh?
<PsycoXul>	but different region
<PsycoXul>	:p
<tina>	eh??
<adam>	http://www.sacred-texts.com/ane/enuma.htm
<dwihno>	adam: making up history papers is fun! especially when your teacher sucks so much you actually get a high grade because of his/her inability to verify the content ;)
<adam>	heh.
<adam>	Sir, this answer came to me in a dream.
<tina>	heh
<adam>	It is all very simple
<dwihno>	The masterness of bullshitting! :)
<tina>	is it now?
<dwihno>	You know you master it, when you get away with it ;)
<PsycoXul>	hey wtf
*	adam will get a degree con artisanry
<PsycoXul>	the answer did come to me in a dream, and it is all very simple
<PsycoXul>	in fact recognizing its simplicity was part of the dream
<adam>	er, +in
<PsycoXul>	but nobody else would get it!
<PsycoXul>	in the dream
<adam>	http://rei.damnsw.net/~adam/fullpage.jpg
<adam>	we tried to fake someone's death for him
<PsycoXul>	and i didn't understand how they could possible not comprehend it
<adam>	so he'd stop getting mail from lamer 12 year olds about questions that  could be answered in the stupid FAQ
<adam>	Matt Burch, that is.
<PsycoXul>	it being one of the single simplest and most fundamental principles of our reality and every facet of our existance
<adam>	hah
<adam>	PsycoXul - the stars are not right, it is not the time.
<PsycoXul>	i just wish i could remember what it was it better :p
<tina>	PsycoXul-what religion was that scripture for?
<adam>	"Okay, well, I'll wait till this simple universe comes to me in MY dream, until then, you don't get credit"
<adam>	er, simple universal fact
*	adam in turn goes insane.
<tina>	yay!
<PsycoXul>	tina: its the creation epic of the ancient sumerians
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<PsycoXul>	tina: actualy the written copies of it are from the newer babylonian days
<adam>	heh, I noticed Tiamat listed
<adam>	which is also the name of some whacky heavy metal band :P
<tina>	yeah, that's a little too far away
<PsycoXul>	:p
<tina>	I'm trying to focus in on the brittish isles
<adam>	yeah, I've only got one guide for you to consult
<adam>	http://rei.damnsw.net/wiccan_creation_myths.txt
<tina>	heh
<tina>	it's not taht big if a deal
<tina>	I have something, it's just not really a story
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<adam>	hey
<tina>	eh, I go to sleep for real this time
<tina>	night...morning... whatever
-->	MSMaverick (~webmaster@pD9EB9BB7.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
<MSMaverick>	hi
<Bagder>	hey ho
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<MSMaverick>	Anyone knows when the first build will work for the recorder 20?
<adam>	never
<MSMaverick>	I sold my 6000 3 months ago :(
<Bagder>	MSMaverick: not right now
<adam>	actually
<adam>	just be patient
<MSMaverick>	yeah
<Bagder>	the first target working will be the player/studio
<adam>	I doubt you're going to want to jump on the first available releases ;p
<MSMaverick>	yep your right :)
<Bagder>	sure you do! ;-)
<Bagder>	ask dwihno
<Bagder>	;-)
<Linus>	dwihno is still our hero
<MSMaverick>	huh?
<adam>	heh
<adam>	Well, I would...
<adam>	but they punish me enough
<Bagder>	he ran the first ever archos.mod for the recorder
<Linus>	He is our best lab rat
<adam>	heh
<MSMaverick>	ah
<MSMaverick>	hehe
<dwihno>	:D
<Linus>	To boldly test the firmware noone has tested before...
<Bagder>	he's our *hero* ;-)
<MSMaverick>	If I could write in C, I would help the project but I cant...
<adam>	heh
<Linus>	Assembler is fine too :-)
<adam>	then you must *suffer*!
<adam>	heh.
<dwihno>	I AM HERO!
<Bagder>	you can learn! ;-)
<dwihno>	yay
<MSMaverick>	:((( *suffering*
<dwihno>	Hey, I found a really neat shockwave game
<dwihno>	http://www.permobil.se/templates_se/P_SE_Page.asp?id=7401
<MSMaverick>	Yeah, thats my world: Coding for the web
<MSMaverick>	ASP, PHP, Perl...
<MSMaverick>	But not C :(
<adam>	my world is sitting around like a potato
<adam>	heh
<MSMaverick>	hehe
<adam>	Perl and PHP both have some aspects of C
<MSMaverick>	I know
<MSMaverick>	But there are enough differences :)
<adam>	just glob your knowledge of perl and php together into a sick bastard mutant code and grit your teeth?
<MSMaverick>	dunno
<MSMaverick>	So the actual builds DO work for the 6000?
<adam>	heh, sorta.
<adam>	I'm impressed by what I've seen so far :P
<PsycoXul>	its nice
<PsycoXul>	it needs 2 sets of sound controls i think though
<MSMaverick>	Is it "cool"? I mean for grapics and so on?
<PsycoXul>	one for the mas and one for the dac
<adam>	heh
<PsycoXul>	since they each have them
<adam>	as cool as two lines of text can be
<MSMaverick>	hehe ok
<MSMaverick>	So you have to work on the recorder (8 lines) heheh
<PsycoXul>	recorders bitmap so
<adam>	yeah
<Linus>	The DAC hasn't any sound control except for the volume
<Linus>	and the deemphasis on/off switch
<Bagder>	we build for player, playerold and recorder
<Linus>	and believe me, you dont want to turn off the deemphasis...
<PsycoXul>	are you sure? i swear there being others.. i don't recall for sure though, but even then what about its volume control
<PsycoXul>	oh and how about the options for turning the various channels on/off
<PsycoXul>	i still wanna listen to mp3's and line-in simultaneously :p
<Linus>	OK. I assumed that you meant sound control as in bass/treble and such
<PsycoXul>	but yeah fixing whats there is the priority of course, i'm just wondering :p
*	Bagder counts to 76 different command line options to curl...!
<Bagder>	and people think it might be hard to use! ;-)
<MSMaverick>	MANY Options is all what the people need :)
-->	alkorr (alkorr@srs07v-3-63.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
<adam>	hey
<Bagder>	Alan man!
<alkorr>	hi every body !
<Zagor>	hi alan!
<MSMaverick>	Is there a limit for the filesize of the firmware?
<Linus>	yo!
<Bagder>	MSMaverick: yes, 200K something
<MSMaverick>	And rockbox currently has?
<Bagder>	not sure, we pad up to 50K
<Linus>	20?
<alkorr>	seems there are more and more people here :)
<MSMaverick>	so enough space for more options? :)
<Zagor>	we're somewhere around 20-25 i think
<Bagder>	some players don't load smaller than 50
<Bagder>	alkorr: you seen the last weeks' progress?
<alkorr>	Well it isn't a problem this padding
<Zagor>	nope, no problem
<Bagder>	no problem at all
<alkorr>	to have a 50 KB file doesn't mean it will waste 50 KB in memory :)
<MSMaverick>	hehe
<alkorr>	of course, i got your emails
<MSMaverick>	Ah yeah but it is still not possible to support mp3PRO, nor?
<alkorr>	well i don't think we have any chance with Micrometall to get what we need to add mp3pro 
<Zagor>	no
<alkorr>	Micronas i mean
<MSMaverick>	why
<alkorr>	business company
<alkorr>	very poor support
<MSMaverick>	But there are other players around...
<Bagder>	yeah, but we're stuck on this mp3 decoder
<MSMaverick>	Isnt it possible to use a plugin like the one for winamp?
<Bagder>	we don't have CPU enough
---	Disconnected (22).
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue May 28 06:07:12 2002