rockbox/www/irc/rockbox-20020516.log

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 13 22:27:52 2002

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---	Topic for #rockbox is Does your box rock? http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
---	Topic for #rockbox set by Bagder at Mon May 13 04:46:28
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<edx>	morning :)
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<edx|breakfast>	hi calpefrosch...
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<Zagor>	hi all
<Bagder>	morning
<Bagder>	I added my malloc code yesterday as you probably noticed
<Bagder>	in the test dir only so far
<Bagder>	with about 8 new files, would you say a new firmware/memory/ directory is justified?
<Zagor>	hmm
<Zagor>	why so many files?
<Bagder>	3 c, 3 h, two "docs"
<Zagor>	firmware/malloc seems a better name, imho
<Bagder>	as long as it is only for malloc, yes ;-)
<Zagor>	what more do you want in there?
<Bagder>	nothing, at the moment. I just thought that if it is named memory, future related additions could go in there
<Bagder>	no big deal
<Zagor>	well if you put it in "common", we can put all kinds of things there :)
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<Bagder>	does it make any sense to separate 20 bytes malloc() from 28 bytes malloc() ?
*	Bagder doesn't think so
<adiamas>	huh?
<Zagor>	umm, we need some context here
<Bagder>	the smallest possible area that will be alloced is 20 bytes now
<Bagder>	the next "bump" up is 28 bytes
<adiamas>	got ya
<Bagder>	and the next after that is 52
<Zagor>	we should probably do some profiling to determine the "bumps"
<Bagder>	yeah, I should probably just leave them as they are for now
<Zagor>	yup
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*	Bagder spots that we're now only 227 days from completing the RC5-64
<Zagor>	Which will be ready first: A "dogfood" rockbox firmware or RC5-64? :)
<Bagder>	a worthy race ;-)
<adiamas>	a "dogfood"?
<adiamas>	and what is RC5-64?
<Zagor>	http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/dogfood.html
<Bagder>	http://stats.distributed.net/rc5-64/
<Bagder>	and our team is here:
<Bagder>	http://stats.distributed.net/rc5-64/tmsummary.php3?team=18241
<Bagder>	RC5 is an encryption algorithm, the RC5-64 is a competion to find the key of a crypto, distributed on computer world wide
<adiamas>	hhehehe k...
<Bagder>	been going on for 1664 days today
<adiamas>	hmmm one of yo umay know...
<adiamas>	my display, font, size etc on my virtual terms (linux) is outta whack..
<adiamas>	i think its releated to my libvga.config
<adiamas>	but im not sure.. ideas?
<Zagor>	libvga?
<Zagor>	you're not using X11?
*	Bagder has no good clue
<Zagor>	uh, ignore me
<Zagor>	:)
<adiamas>	i am using X11
*	Zagor reads "virtual terms" slowly, several times. Finally gets it.
<adiamas>	but on my virtual terms....
<adiamas>	yeah.. do: ctrl-alt-f4
<Zagor>	i've never had that problem
<adiamas>	and imagine seeing 2 login prompts.. one at the top of the screen.. and another at the bottom :)
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<Zagor>	adiamas: that ipaq question (on the mlist) should probably be added to the FAQ. I get it a lot.
<Bagder>	he can take your upcoming and thorough reply and paste in ;-)
<Zagor>	hehe
<calpefrosch|work>	I have an IPAQ too, and it would be cool to use the rockbox with it.
<calpefrosch|work>	<09>hh, jukebox
<Zagor>	it would, indeed. so get started on a driver ;)
<calpefrosch|work>	it's not my special subject ;-)
<Bagder>	since it is just usb-storage, one would suspect that many people would be intersted in such a driver
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<Bagder>	I mean, non-Archos ppl too
<Bagder>	morning Stuart
<Zagor>	Bagder: indeed
<wavey>	howdy
<Zagor>	if someone would donate an ipaq to me, I'd consider looking into it :)
<calpefrosch|work>	are you looking for someone special ?
<Bagder>	for pocketpc?
<Bagder>	I wouldn't ;-)
*	calpefrosch|work holds his IPAQ tight
<Zagor>	bleh, no not for pocketpc. i'm not going anywhere near that.
<calpefrosch|work>	there is a Linux for the IPAQ..
<Zagor>	yup, that's what I'd consider looking into
<Zagor>	however, I'm not about to trade in my vintage HP 200LX anytime soon
<Bagder>	hehe
<Bagder>	what year did you buy that?
<Zagor>	I can't remember. 1995 or something. it says "copyright 1992,1994" on the back :)
<calpefrosch|work>	it's DOS ??
<Zagor>	yep
<Zagor>	MS-DOS 5.0
<calpefrosch|work>	and you didn't install Linux on it?? ;-)
<Zagor>	no. It's got an 8086, so it's a bit limited. last time I checked, the state of the linux port was very raw
<Bagder>	80186 isn't it?
<Zagor>	well it's some kind of NEC x86-compatible chip, I don't remember the exact model
*	calpefrosch|work goes to work again
<Zagor>	1 May 2002: FIRST EVER ELKS BETA!!!
<Bagder>	doesn't *really* matter ;-)
*	Zagor is downloading :)
<Bagder>	elks?
<Zagor>	Embeddable Linux Kernel Subset - linux for the 8086
<Bagder>	aaah
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<Bagder>	dr Linus!
<Linus>	yo
<Linus>	Doctor Linus. I like the sound of that! :-)
<Bagder>	then you better start doing really good things
<Bagder>	;-)
<Bagder>	after all, Torvalds *is* a "doctor Linus"
<Linus>	I actually have an almost working audio thread.
<Linus>	Bagder: I'm curious about the button interface
<Bagder>	in what way?
<Linus>	The simulator code reads the buttons and sleep for 1 tick in a loop. Shouldn't that be handled with a message queue?
<Bagder>	perhaps
<Linus>	Or is it hard to simulate?
<Bagder>	the code reading the keys should run on the timer interrupt, shouldn't it?
<Linus>	I believe so
<Linus>	and post to a queue when a button is pressed>/released
<Bagder>	so we better do the correct thing for the target code first, and then we adjust the similator to work similarly
<Linus>	I'll do that
<Bagder>	as you might've seen, I've added the malloc code to the firmware/malloc dir now
<Bagder>	it should be possible to use
<Linus>	Great.
<Bagder>	it needs one init call and one bmalloc_add_pool()
<Linus>	ok
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<dwihno>	God f<>rmiddag
<dwihno>	Ingen vaken? :/
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<Linus>	helo
<Zagor>	hi there. english here
<Linus>	fast vi <20>r svenskar
<Linus>	n<>gra av oss
<dwihno>	Okay
*	Zagor slaps Linus
<dwihno>	I obey
<Linus>	ouch!
<dwihno>	Anyways, looking for reviews regarding the archos players, I stumbled across the rockbox page :)
<Zagor>	welcome :-)
<Linus>	Many people do
<dwihno>	Since I've been reading a couple of reviews pinpointing the software as a design flaw, I got interested to know more about the device :)
<Linus>	Shoot
<Zagor>	well i guess there's a few nights' worth of reading on the webpage :-)
<dwihno>	*sha-baam*
<dwihno>	hehe
<dwihno>	What kind of batteries?
<Zagor>	AA NiMH
<dwihno>	Is the sound quality good or bad? Signal-to-noise ratio etc...
<Linus>	1.2V NiMH
<dwihno>	Is it possible to find replacement batteries without travelling to asia :) ?
<Zagor>	sound quality is very good on the recorder, fairly good on the player
<Linus>	The batteries are common
<Zagor>	you can buy them in any hobby shop
<dwihno>	Since you have been working on the software for quite some time, what is your personal opinions about the devices?
<Linus>	I bough mine at Teknikmagasinet
<Zagor>	we love them!
<Zagor>	some design flaws, but in general the flexibility that comes from using standard parts is really nice
<Linus>	Although they have saved maybe one penny too much on some parts of the hardware
<dwihno>	ah, okay
<dwihno>	I am considering the 20gb recorder model
<Zagor>	good choice
<Linus>	Good choice
<Zagor>	echo
<Linus>	cho cho...
<dwihno>	but the software part makes me a bit ... worried :)
<Zagor>	that's what we're here for ;)
<dwihno>	:D
<Linus>	Don't be alarmed. it's not that bad
<Zagor>	no, it's quite alright
<dwihno>	All reviews screaming about the "bad sound quality", are they just using bad headphones? Because I HATE hiss-noises when listening to music
<Zagor>	that depends
<Zagor>	many reviews only listened to very early model players, which had bad sound quality. that was fixed in a firmware upgrade over a year ago
<dwihno>	ah, okay
<dwihno>	How about skipping?
*	Bagder returns with a cup of steaming coffee
<Zagor>	but there is a buzz problem in the recorder, that I don't know if they have fixed yet
<dwihno>	Does the buffer prevent it 100%?
<dwihno>	buzz problem?
<Zagor>	no, you'll get skipping if you take it jogging, for example
<Linus>	I have no problem with skipping
<Zagor>	this is not a device for the ski bumps :)
<Linus>	But since it is a hard drive you must be careful with it.
<Linus>	But you don't want to go jogging with it. It is too heavy for that, IMHO
<dwihno>	ah, okay
<dwihno>	for walking, the buffer is sufficient?
<Zagor>	sometimes, the recorder emits a quiet buzz sound that seems to come from the screen update. we're trying to address that in our firmware.
<Bagder>	dwihno: it is
<Linus>	Haven't had a skip yet
<dwihno>	Are there any big differences between the recorder and studio models? As far as I know, there are only these two models of the player (with different sizes...)?
<Zagor>	big differences
<Zagor>	the recorder has a much better screen, more keys and better sound
<dwihno>	the recorder has recording abilities? :) what else? :)
<dwihno>	ah, more keys
<Linus>	The recorder has a newer, better, MP3 decoder chip
<dwihno>	I love keys
<dwihno>	the price difference is slim, only $30-40
<Linus>	More sound tweaking parameters
<Zagor>	the big difference is the screen. the studio is a 11x2 character display, the recorder is a 112x64 bitmap display
<dwihno>	How often does the recorder-buzz-noise appear?
<Bagder>	there won't be any tetris on the studio!
<Linus>	The Tetris is awful on the Studio
<dwihno>	So the studio is more like a low-budget (older perhaps) model?
<Linus>	Yup
<dwihno>	I read about that tetris game, that was a quite fun thingy :)
<Zagor>	dwihno: look here: http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/devcon/show.cgi?img4083.jpg
<dwihno>	BIG difference! :O
<Zagor>	yeah
<Linus>	And the USB2.0 interface ROCKS!
<dwihno>	I'm impressed with the rate of progress you guys are making with the replacement firmware :) Who got the idea rolling in the first place?
<Zagor>	it sure does
<Bagder>	usb2 is schweeeet
<Linus>	It was Zagors idea
*	Bagder blames Zagor
<Bagder>	we did nothing ;-)
<Zagor>	hehe
<Linus>	I just sit and watch
<dwihno>	Zagor = Bj<42>rn, right?
<Zagor>	yes
<dwihno>	ah...
<Linus>	Zag<61>r
<dwihno>	I've heard about you in other places :)
<dwihno>	Hey, we got a celebrity here! :D
<Zagor>	oh?
<Linus>	That must be Bj<42>rn Borg
<Zagor>	C64?
<Bagder>	muaahahaha
<dwihno>	:-)
<Linus>	Zagor is curious
<dwihno>	I can't remember, but the words Bj<42>rn. haxx, and Daniel(?) rings a bell somewhere deep inside my head
*	Bagder hides
*	Linus feels left out
<Zagor>	heh, yeah we've got our fingers into quite a number of projects... :-)
<dwihno>	Linus: <Linus> I just sit and watch <-- suit yourself ;)
<Bagder>	I tried "Stenberg" on google
<Linus>	:-)
<Bagder>	I'm only number four
<Linus>	Try Nielsen Feltzing
<dwihno>	correction, you're the third
<Bagder>	;-)
<Linus>	First hit: Rockbox :-)
<dwihno>	YEAH! :D
<dwihno>	All your rockbox are belong to archos! :D
<dwihno>	Speaking of which, have they contacted you?
<Zagor>	we've practically invaded google :)
<Bagder>	we own google
<Zagor>	nope. I don't expect they will, either
<dwihno>	A project this big might draw some attention
<dwihno>	"Stop the project or die" :)
<Zagor>	yeah, we'll see
<Bagder>	that would be slightly amusing ;-)
<Zagor>	they don't have much to go on, though. this is all clean and legal
<Bagder>	...until they send guys gome to us with large aluminum bats
<Linus>	If our firmware is better thet theirs, it will certainly be embarassing
<Zagor>	"if"? ;)
<Bagder>	when
<dwihno>	:-)
<Linus>	"when"
<dwihno>	It's just a question of time
<Bagder>	exactly
<dwihno>	The web page is up to date with all the green and yellow marked features?
<Zagor>	yup
<dwihno>	may 8
<dwihno>	boot loader?
<Bagder>	we should make the tree.c yellow
<Bagder>	and add a link to the API docs embryo
<Linus>	The boot loader is for loading different firmwares
<dwihno>	ah, okay
<Linus>	games, the Archos original firmware etc
<Bagder>	web browser, pdf reader... :-P
<Linus>	Movie player
<dwihno>	Hey, as long as you can watch pr0n jpeg's in BW I'm satisfied ;D
<Linus>	You want the video Archos
<Bagder>	right, we need a jpeg decoder
<Zagor>	with scrolling :)
<Linus>	Lots of scrolling
<dwihno>	heh
<dwihno>	bicubic interpolation is all you need
<Bagder>	we just use a large screen buffer and lcd_update() with an x,y
<Bagder>	I already considered this actually ;-)
<Zagor>	i'm moving the simulators to GREEN. they do work, after all
<dwihno>	hah :) cool
<dwihno>	yay! tree is yellow now! :D
<Bagder>	Zagor: right
<Linus>	tree.c has a bad link
<Zagor>	ah, fixing
<Bagder>	add the API docs link too
<Linus>	BTW, what do I have to do to get system.c green?
<dwihno>	How do you browse tracks and such on the player? Do you have a tree view of all files?
<Linus>	Rewrite it, I know...
<Linus>	The tree is quite small on a 2x11 screen :-)
<dwihno>	Is it possible to make play an entire directory without playlists?
<dwihno>	In short: how is the user interface on the archos? :)
<Linus>	You mean the Archos original firmware?
<dwihno>	yeah
<dwihno>	If you want to, you can tell me about your own implementation of the directory browsing (or however it works) :)
<Linus>	In the origina, you can create playlists that consists of an entire directory tree with a simple button press
<Bagder>	we will make everything *perfect* ;-)
<Linus>	Bagder is right
<Linus>	Wa are *cool*
<PsycoXul>	yeah
<dwihno>	:-)
<dwihno>	YOU OWNZZZZ! :D
*	Bagder giggles
<dwihno>	Where in .se do you buy it for the best price?
<Linus>	R000lz
<Linus>	I dont know
<PsycoXul>	dwihno: i've been thinking about all these things since before i got my archos, and watching these guys progress and they're doing it all just right
*	Bagder doesn't know either
*	Linus blushes
<dwihno>	:-)
<Bagder>	I bought my Archos solely for the purpose of running OUR software
<dwihno>	:-)
<dwihno>	You mean, playing tetris and storing jpeg's? :)
<Linus>	I bought mine to listen to music
<Bagder>	music is secondary to me
<Linus>	I have two
*	Zagor has three :)
<Bagder>	haha
<Linus>	One developer machine and one music machine
<Bagder>	and the winner is... 
<Linus>	Zagor cheats
<dwihno>	ZAGOR! For almighty ownzage ;D
<Zagor>	it's not cheating, it's called "outside assistance" ;)
<dwihno>	Yeah, you got a 6000 model you lucky bastard :)
<Linus>	Threatening a poo frenchman to get his player. That's low.
<PsycoXul>	i decided to get one to run other firmware on it before your first LCD scroller release heh
<PsycoXul>	i just knew these devices were gonna do more than they were being sold as
<dwihno>	What is left to do before the first release of the firmware?
<Linus>	The 6000/studio model will be the first target for our firmware
<Zagor>	dwihno: basically tying it all together
<Linus>	I have some things to do with the MPEG playing code
<Zagor>	some more MP3 playback work, a bit more UI tweaks
<Linus>	But it plays music
<dwihno>	The 4 second boundary has been broken? :)
<Linus>	Indeed. It plays from hard disk
<dwihno>	How did you play 4 seconds btw?
<Linus>	Loading 128K of MP3 data via the debugger
<Bagder>	that "news" section on the web site could mention this
<dwihno>	I can do documentation! :D
<Linus>	Great!
<dwihno>	I want to be a part of the phenomenon!
<Linus>	Please join
<Bagder>	we could use that
<Bagder>	we need all the help we can get
<dwihno>	Do you have any kind of screenshots of the firmware I can see? :)
<Linus>	There is no firmware yet... :-(
<Bagder>	we have simulators
<dwihno>	ah, okay
<dwihno>	Is it possible to test it on win32?
<Linus>	yes
<Linus>	but I wouldn't call it "test"
<Bagder>	but there's no binary available for download
<Bagder>	only source in CVS 
<dwihno>	damn, I have no development enviromnent setup here :/
<Linus>	you can always suck up to the win32 developers on this channel
<Bagder>	we should ask the win32 guys to start making "releases"
<dwihno>	BTW, the USB2 interface is backwards-compatible, right+
<dwihno>	?
<Bagder>	yes
<Zagor>	yes
<Bagder>	1.1 works fine too
<Linus>	We should have a Java simulator too. Then we could have it as an applet on the web page! :-)
<Zagor>	haha
<dwihno>	1.1?
<Bagder>	usb1.1
<Linus>	USB1.1
<Zagor>	yeah, that'd be easy. just one monster of a JNI hack ;)
<dwihno>	Is USB 1.1 the standard of all computers? :)
<Bagder>	yes
<dwihno>	ah
<dwihno>	Is there USB 1.0?
<Linus>	i don't think so
<dwihno>	hm
<dwihno>	maybe in some stoneage computer
<dwihno>	a long long time ago, in a taiwanese bunker far away
<Zagor>	they never released 1.0. I think it had 1.5Mbit speed
<dwihno>	What is the speed of 1.1?
<Linus>	oooh.
<dwihno>	12?
<Zagor>	yes, 12
<dwihno>	and for 2.0? 4xx ?
<Zagor>	480
<dwihno>	New DSP algoritms.... What do you have planned?
<Zagor>	whatever we can get. OGG, WAV etc
<dwihno>	ah, okay
<PsycoXul>	i talked to somebody in #vorbis about ogg
<dwihno>	I read in the FAQ, that WAV would be unsupported :)
<PsycoXul>	on the hardware
<dwihno>	How about reading mpeg streams of sounds from ... let's say ... divx's
<dwihno>	Would that be possible?
<PsycoXul>	he said it *might* be possible between the sh1 and the mas
<PsycoXul>	heh
<Linus>	I think so. As long as the sound is MP3
<Linus>	It's just a matter of reading the files
<dwihno>	yeah
<PsycoXul>	not very optimistically thought... if it possible, likely it is for the recorder only
<Linus>	Playing wav files with 48kHz stereo will not be possible on the Player without compression
<dwihno>	In what way?
<Linus>	The serial line between the CPU and the decoder is too slow
<dwihno>	ah, okay
<Linus>	1mbit/s
<Linus>	But the recorder has a parallel connection
<Linus>	so it should be possible
<Linus>	however, the burden on the DMA will be high
<Linus>	And the CPU will be wuite busy
<Linus>	quite
<dwihno>	ah
<Linus>	But never say never. it has a fairly low priority at the moment...
<dwihno>	We can dream about it :)
<PsycoXul>	22khz 16bit stereo or 44khz 16bit mono should be possible on the player, and anything less, right? those are only around 700kbps
<Linus>	indeed
<Linus>	PsycoXul: i believe so
<PsycoXul>	but then it seems to have problems playing high bitrate mp3's so that might not be the limiting factor either
<Linus>	That is a CPU problem I think
<dwihno>	How about funny file formats like MOD's, and emulating SID and stuff? :)
<Linus>	Hold your horses!
<dwihno>	Or am I all away in the blue now? :)
<Bagder>	"blue sky alert, take cover"
<Linus>	As long as we don't have WAV playing we can't generate any other sound than MP3
<dwihno>	Rockbox - Making our dreams come true ;D
<PsycoXul>	heh
<Bagder>	Rockbox - what do you want to play tomorrow?
<Linus>	But as soon as we have PCM we surely can dream about MOd and stuff
<dwihno>	Yeah
<dwihno>	Before building the house, it is nice to have some bricks :)
<PsycoXul>	yeah
<PsycoXul>	if we can have pcm
<Linus>	and the COU isn't exactly a monster
<Linus>	CPU
<PsycoXul>	it would have to be fairly low-quality
<Zagor>	PsycoXul: have you published the code for double-height text?
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<Zagor>	kjer!
<Linus>	heloo Kjell
<kjer>	Hallo!
<Linus>	I noticed that you joined yesterday evening too
*	Bagder moos at Kjell
<PsycoXul>	Zagor: hmm
<kjer>	Yup, but it was just for testing. Then I rebooted...
<Linus>	Windows, eh?
<dwihno>	You need some cool slogan for the Rockbox project
*	Linus NEEDS coffee!
<kjer>	I tried to install Linux, but I get a missing irq for one harddisk I have... Redhat 7.3 :-(
<Bagder>	mmm coffee
<Zagor>	missing irq?? never heard that before.
<dwihno>	Me neither
<kjer>	Me neither - but I sure got it...
<PsycoXul>	Zagor: iirc all i did was lcd_write(0x9,0) and then put the text up like normal... i'd have to check that though, and i haven't done it with the new codebase yet
<dwihno>	Redhat was equipped with IRQ-detection-obfuscation code from M$, I presume :)
<Zagor>	PsycoXul: could you check? I'd like to use it as startup-logo for the firmware
<PsycoXul>	Zagor: it was simple, and i found it in the pdf on the player's LCD on your site heh
<Zagor>	ok :)
<Zagor>	i think we've been over this before once... ;)
<dwihno>	Do you have the logo in a appropriate format for the recorder yet? :)
<Zagor>	yes
<PsycoXul>	heh
<PsycoXul>	yeah
<dwihno>	Ah, another question... Is there much of a difference between the firmwares in the players?
<PsycoXul>	i tried to convert it to custom chars for the player's LCD, but it was *extremely* ugly and took more chars than you can define heh
<dwihno>	:-)
<Bagder>	I wanted to write a GIMP save-plugin for our bitmap format, but I couldn't find out how to do it...
<Zagor>	dwihno: the player and recorder uses totally different firmware. we will make two separate versions.
<PsycoXul>	but i did find that you can set custom chars into double-height mode, so with a little creativity you can design some things like that...
<Bagder>	so I'm considering adding code to read some well-known format
<Zagor>	xbm?
<Bagder>	xbm is not our format
<dwihno>	Zagor: ah, too bad.
<PsycoXul>	it is for the player
<Zagor>	no, but it's a source format that's easily converted
<dwihno>	Zagor: That would save a heapload of time
<PsycoXul>	at least it used to be heh
<Bagder>	Zagor: well, "easily" at least :-)
<Zagor>	dwihno: well much code will be shared anyway so it's not a big problem. but they use different hardware so we need different drivers.
<Bagder>	Linus: do you have any bpm format reader code left anywhere?
<Zagor>	http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/rockbox112.gif   <--- recorder logo
<Linus>	Yes I do
<dwihno>	Are the batteries shipped with the player good enough for usage, or should they be replaced on arrival? I've read it is hell'ish to replace the batteries :/
<Bagder>	Linus: wouldn't that be useful?
<Linus>	If you mean BMP
<Bagder>	uh, yes
<Zagor>	they are fine, and simple to replace
<dwihno>	aww... how cute :)
*	Linus looks in his toy box
<PsycoXul>	they come with 2 whole sets
<Linus>	Baaah. It is only a BMP writer.
<dwihno>	Japanese batteries suck :)
*	Linus looks again
<PsycoXul>	i got mine for xmas and i still get ~10 hour playtimes on the first set
<PsycoXul>	but they seem to have supplied different batteries to different people so i can't speak for what you get
<PsycoXul>	mine are green and have 1600mAh printed on them
<Linus>	Did you also get 8 batteries?
<Linus>	I did
<Bagder>	seems that's standard
<Zagor>	my first unit had 1200mAh, I think
<Zagor>	i'm using 1800 now
<dwihno>	I got a BMP reader thingy
<dwihno>	Although I need to clean it from windows dependant code
<dwihno>	<shame on me>
<Bagder>	dwihno: hey, a golden opportunity to join in! ;-)
<dwihno>	YAY :D
<dwihno>	a golden shower
<dwihno>	erhm...
<Linus>	Bagder: I found it. Mailing...
<dwihno>	Zagor: How much does 1800mAh batteries affect play time?
<dwihno>	You get much extra time? :)
---	dwihno is now known as dw|bbl
<Zagor>	i haven't done any timed measurements, but I get a lot.
<Bagder>	Linus: this code is quite perfect
<Linus>	Good. It's only monochrome, but that is what we want
<Bagder>	right
<Bagder>	I'll "port" it for our use
<Zagor>	I'm removing firmware/disk.* for now
<Zagor>	it's just dummy code anyway
<Linus>	Finally.
<Zagor>	Bagder: I get a compiler warning for line 558 of dmalloc.c
<Zagor>	is it ok if I break out the prevsize assignment from the "if" and put it above?
<Bagder>	yes, but then it'll be assigned unnecessary at times
<Zagor>	really? the condition is &&, which means it will always be executed
<Zagor>	no?
<Bagder>	no
<Bagder>	only if the first equals true
<Zagor>	uh, no. i'm silly
<Bagder>	but the assignment could probably be moved into the block below
<Zagor>	yes, that'd remove the warning
<Bagder>	how did you get the warning?
<Bagder>	ah
<Bagder>	-W was missing
<Zagor>	you can reach "if (prevsize > qinfo[0])" without initialzing prevsize
<Bagder>	how?
<Zagor>	ah, there's still a problem with the prevsize -= 
<Bagder>	right
<Bagder>	there's a problem
<Zagor>	if memblock was true, then the assigment would never execute
<Zagor>	will you fix this? it's better than me following your instructions. also, how about indenting the code ;)
<Bagder>	I'll fix
<Bagder>	I honestly can't see why gcc need both -W and -Wall to show all warnings
<Zagor>	no, it's a bit odd
<Zagor>	are you using 2.96?
<Bagder>	no, 3.0.3
*	Bagder committed
<Bagder>	back to bmp.c
<Bagder>	hm
<Linus>	hm?
<Bagder>	it barfs hard
<Bagder>	error - Bitmap is too wide (9472 pixels, max is 112)
<Linus>	ooh missing something?
<Linus>	haha
<Bagder>	could it be that my bmp is compressed and this code doesn't grok that?
---	dw|bbl is now known as dwihno
<dwihno>	tra la la
<Linus>	Could be. BMP compression is all but fun
<Linus>	It is really, and i mean really silly
<Linus>	dont even try
<Linus>	save it uncompressed
<Linus>	you should also check the endianness
<Linus>	That code runs on an intel CPU
<dwihno>	Check if the indian is BIG or small
<Linus>	:-)
<dwihno>	Linus is a big indian
<dwihno>	And I'm a motorola indian :)
<dwihno>	Hey, I got another question :-)
<Linus>	shoot
<dwihno>	Linux does not require extra software, except some kernel patch for USB2, right?=
<dwihno>	What about win2k?
<dwihno>	Does it require software drivers or does it work out of the box?
<Linus>	I think win2k needs drivers, but I don't know
<Linus>	try :-)
<Bagder>	I got all sorts of win-drivers with my usb2 card
<Linus>	Linux needs a lot of work on the USB2.0 support
<Zagor>	Linus: needs? it works just fine for me.
*	Bagder tries to find a 'convert' option that saves a bmp uncompressed
<Linus>	Well, for example the timeout issue on the ISD300
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<dwihno>	Hm
<Zagor>	that's an Archos issue
<dwihno>	Does the archos usb thingies incorporate 30 tons of extra gayness software?
<Linus>	not at all
<Zagor>	but yes, it has bugs and is being improved. still I think it works good.
<Linus>	well they include a lame MP3 coder software
*	Zagor has never opened the CD that came with his Archos
<dwihno>	musicmatch studioGay
<Linus>	exactly
<dwihno>	Zagor: and you installed the Archos on win2k?
<dwihno>	or are you 100% linuxer?
<Bagder>	can anyone send me that little rockbox logo in uncompressed bmp format?
<Linus>	Don't insult him!
<Zagor>	dwihno: no, I only use linux
<Linus>	Well Zagor, how about Coiunter-Strike?
<Linus>	CONFESS!
<Zagor>	yes, I have a small win95 partition (4 gig) for playing counter-strike
<Linus>	Gotcha!
<Zagor>	hehe
<Zagor>	I once tried updating to win98, but it started freezing my machine so I went back to win95. :-)
<dwihno>	Counter-gay! :D
<dwihno>	Counter-Strike is quite addictive :)
<Linus>	so you returned your Win98 CD to the shop, right. :-)
<Zagor>	Linus: yeah, right
<dwihno>	I can't live without DTP, games and such. That's why I'm a WinLoser
<dwihno>	What is the resolution of the recorder?
<Bagder>	112 x 64
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<dwihno>	ah
<dwihno>	good enough for bitmap viewers :)
<dwihno>	How much memory do you have to play around with? :)
<Linus>	2Mb
<dwihno>	that's a shitload! :D
<Linus>	no
<Linus>	not for mp3 buffering
<dwihno>	Nah, but for doing other neat stuff :)
<dwihno>	Like loading bitmaps
<Linus>	indeed
<Zagor>	divx viewer :)
<dwihno>	hehe
<dwihno>	Zagor: Come down back down to earth! :)
<dwihno>	I'm the one with perverted dreams in the sky, remember? :)
*	Zagor his soaring high :)
<Zagor>	is, even
<dwihno>	First we need jpeg viewer for the pr0n on the disk...
<dwihno>	Some ascii viewer would be really neat
<dwihno>	and some kind of basic editor
<dwihno>	then, MOD support, then SID :)
<Bagder>	I got an uncompressed bmp now, it still makes no sense
<Bagder>	byter order is not the problem
<dwihno>	Bagder: 4 bit bitmap?
<Bagder>	8 bit palette
<Bagder>	no compression
<dwihno>	okay
<dwihno>	strange
<Bagder>	it is
<dwihno>	I had some problems getting 8 bit palettes working with windows
<dwihno>	It's not like the good old mode 13h days
<dwihno>	Time to make coffee - I got the great responsibility today ;D
<Bagder>	well, I read the header first, it is enough, it doesn't look good
<dwihno>	You got the structs?
<Linus>	Bagder: the palette should be 2 entries.
<Bagder>	right
<Bagder>	but the header gets wrong when I read it
<Bagder>	hm
<Bagder>	I need it packed 
<Linus>	padding?
<Bagder>	yes
<Bagder>	what's the gcc keyword, you know?
<dwihno>	erhm
<dwihno>	dunno
<Zagor>	packed
<Zagor>	attribute packed
<dwihno>	printf("Hello\n");
<dwihno>	:-)
<Linus>	Or -fpack-struct
<dwihno>	m
<dwihno>	hmm
<dwihno>	What does that do?
<Bagder>	now this is better ;-)
<Linus>	Makes the compiler to not align integers
<Bagder>	still need to swap a lot of bytes on Sparc
<dwihno>	ah, okay
<Linus>	ooo. boring
<Bagder>	Size = 1712586752
<Bagder>	;-)
<Linus>	you will need to swap in target as well
<dwihno>	:D
<Zagor>	don't use bmp
<Bagder>	Zagor: when you write the code, you get to decide ;-)
<Linus>	...because...
<Zagor>	because bmp is evil and silly
<Linus>	...because...
<Linus>	I agree with the silly part, though
<Zagor>	XBM or PPM is lots better and simpler
<Bagder>	not for winlosers
<Bagder>	to save as
<dwihno>	True
<dwihno>	There are photoshop plugins
<Zagor>	well, TIF then?
<dwihno>	Or some cool format like TGA! :D
<Zagor>	whatever is not designed by 4-yearolds
<dwihno>	"Yeah, listen to dwihno, TGA is great!"
<dwihno>	:-)
<Linus>	Zagor: can you say unisys?
<Bagder>	hey, I'm not against any format, just write the decoder...
<Zagor>	Linus: don't compress
<Linus>	Ok then
<Zagor>	but seriously, can't photoshop save any sane format?
<Bagder>	it isn't just about saving
<Bagder>	it is about decoding right now
<Zagor>	PPM and XBM are both really simple to decode
<Zagor>	i'll mail you my ppm2c util
<Linus>	TIF is not a format. It's an operating system!
<Bagder>	I doubt win users can save ppm
<Linus>	What a blob!
<Zagor>	ok, I admit I don't know anything about TIF
<dwihno>	Bagder: In photoshop with some extra plugin, it is possible
<Bagder>	ok
<Linus>	TIF is just a framework for embedding a myriad of other formats
<Bagder>	I still intend to make this bmp decoder work
<Linus>	Do so. You have my support
<dwihno>	How much did you pay for your archoses?
<Bagder>	uh
*	Bagder doesn't really know ;-)
<Linus>	The TIFF specification is 121 pages!!!
<dwihno>	Read my lips: T G A
<dwihno>	:)
<Zagor>	how should we handle shared code btwn the recorder and player apps? keep in in player and just link to it in the recorder Makefile?
<Zagor>	id3.c, playlist.c etc.
<Linus>	The TGA format spec is only 29 pages.
<Bagder>	Zagor: let's just have two makefiles and specify all files included in both of them
<dwihno>	Makefile:s are sexy
<Zagor>	Bagder: but where are the files? in apps/player/ ?
<Bagder>	which files?
<Bagder>	the makefileS?
<Zagor>	id3.c and playlist.c, for instance
<Bagder>	they could be in apps/
<Zagor>	the root?
<Bagder>	yes, for general files
<Bagder>	or else a dir for general files
<Zagor>	but they are only general for mp3 playing applications, not for games etc
<Linus>	oooooh "common"
<Bagder>	then it should be a general mp3 dir
<Zagor>	I feel it's better that one of the two player apps link to the other's source files
<Linus>	Are you sure about that?
<Linus>	Does CVS handle links?
<Bagder>	it doesn't make much sense if a game wants to play mp3
<Zagor>	id3.o: ../player/id3.c
<Bagder>	since then the games would also need those files etc
<Zagor>	but id3 and playlist are not useful for games
<Linus>	id3.o: ../../common/id3.c
<Bagder>	mp3/id3.c
<Bagder>	or tracks/id3.c
<Zagor>	then we're polluting the apps module with non-apps directories from the get-go
<Linus>	Zagor: i don't follow
<Bagder>	me personally, I think the 'apps' dir mainly is for the main firware app
<Linus>	I agree
<Zagor>	no
<Zagor>	it's for all applications
<Zagor>	otherwise, we can just keep working in "firmware"
<Bagder>	in my mind, firware is the low level software
<Bagder>	the app is built ontop
<Zagor>	apps is for tetris, picview, screensaver, the two player firmwares etc.
<Linus>	I can buy that
<Linus>	But I think that common code should be placed in a "neutral" place
<Bagder>	but then you can't have 'player' and 'recorder' dir in apps
<Zagor>	define "common"
<Bagder>	as they're not apps
<Zagor>	all code can be reused by other projects
<Zagor>	Bagder: sure they are
<Bagder>	if tetris is an app, how can player be one too? 
<Zagor>	they are two separate archos.mod files. load one to play tetris, load the other to play mp3s
<Bagder>	they're bundled today
<Linus>	I don't like that
<Zagor>	in the simulator, yes. i don't think we should have it like that in target
<Bagder>	the bundle?
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<Bagder>	why not?
<Linus>	the bundle
<Bagder>	why not play tetris while listening to music?
<Linus>	I see your point
<dwihno>	Tetris + music sounds sexy
<Bagder>	sure, you can opt out
<dwihno>	I get turned on by the idea
<Zagor>	ok, yeah, it's an option. but still, the point of the apps dir is to allow separate apps the same level of abstraction.
<Bagder>	well, my point would be that we'll end up building many output targets, many more than just player and recorder, and therefore it makess little sense to keep files in directories named like that
<Bagder>	still, I don't mind very much
<Bagder>	we'll change it later 
<Linus>	I would still like to easily identify which files go with which app
<Linus>	having them in separate directories helps
<Zagor>	that's my thinking too
<Bagder>	not if the makefiles refer to them ../../blabla
<Bagder>	it spoils that completely
<Linus>	But you don't want shared files in an easily identified place?
<Bagder>	yes I do
<Bagder>	but that is not in player/
<Bagder>	or recorder/
<Linus>	I asked Zagor, sorry
<Bagder>	ah
<Zagor>	well then point is these two files are only shared between "player" and "recorder". not with "picview", "bookreader", "screensaver" etc. so it's not a "common" dir that makes sense.
<Zagor>	s/then/my/
<Linus>	Maybe not those two files
<Linus>	I was talking in general
<Zagor>	don't :)
<Linus>	haha
<Zagor>	ok, how about this:
<Zagor>	apps/mp3, apps/mp3/player apps/mp3/recorder
<Linus>	nah
<Linus>	makes tetris even more "difficult" to include in the mp3 firmware
<dwihno>	apps/video/jpgviewer
<dwihno>	apps/utils/textviewer
<Zagor>	Linus: why?
*	Linus sees the "plugins" directory coming
<Zagor>	dwihno: it makes little sense to create categories before we even have the applications. :)
<Linus>	tetris.o: ../../../tetris/tetris.c
<Zagor>	Linus: why are you putting tetris.c in ../../../ ?
<dwihno>	Zagor: True, I'm just being an id<69>sprutare :)
<Zagor>	dwihno: :)
<Linus>	Zagor: it's an app, isn't it?
<Zagor>	Linus: you just said it wasn't
<dwihno>	What do I need to write a module to the firmware?
<Linus>	but you said it was
<Linus>	or did i misunderstand
<Zagor>	did not, did too...
<Linus>	:-)
<Zagor>	dwihno: lots of patience, currently :)
<Linus>	and an "app" directory
<dwihno>	Zagor: Ah, okay, well, I haven't even ordered myself an Archos yet ;)
<Zagor>	hehe
<dwihno>	How about audio output levels? Is it good?
<Linus>	Then do
<Bagder>	dwihno: you should join up on the mailing list
<Zagor>	dwihno: oh yes, plenty...
<Linus>	Define "good"
<Linus>	gotta go now. CU guys!
<dwihno>	zya
<dwihno>	Good ... hmm...
<Zagor>	bye
<dwihno>	Loud enough to hear at a comfortable party level when you wanna party! :D
<Linus>	doesn't that kind of depend on the amplifier?
<dwihno>	dunno, I'm no hardware guru
<Linus>	say "headphones"
<dwihno>	hehe
<dwihno>	Since when are headphones amplifier
<dwihno>	s?
<dwihno>	or maybe they are
<Linus>	you connect the headphone output to your amplifier
<Linus>	turn up the volume and party!
<dwihno>	ah, okay :)
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<Linus>	oh no. elinenbe is here. I must go!
<Linus>	:-)
<elinenbe>	That's cool.
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<dwihno>	fa la la
<dwihno>	Hm
<elinenbe>	Anyone want to do some Pro*C programming?
<dwihno>	*tries to figure out more questions*
<dwihno>	How about track switching time? :)
<Zagor>	dwihno: how do you mean?
<elinenbe>	how is the progress?
<dwihno>	Zagor: When song #1 ends, how many seconds do I have to wait for song #2 to start?
<Zagor>	about 0.01 :)
<Zagor>	any gap is considered a bug
<elinenbe>	I agree with that...
<elinenbe>	are you guys planning on pre-buffering the next song?
<Zagor>	yes
<Zagor>	the next several, if they are short
<elinenbe>	nice...
<elinenbe>	lets say you are listening in shuffle mode, and then you want to listen in normal mode, then you will have to buffer again.
<Zagor>	yes
<elinenbe>	what will this do to the battery life?
<Zagor>	well the more you access the disk the more power you draw
<elinenbe>	I think there should be an option to choose an agressive battery mode, and a very conservative battery mode --> agressive for exercise, or when the device is plugged in, and a conservative for when on the plane
<dwihno>	Hm
<Zagor>	what should the difference be?
<Zagor>	we plan to always be conservative
<dwihno>	Zagor: You don't have the manual for the Archos in a handy format? I'd like to see how to operate it and limitations
<Bagder>	dwihno: let's put it this way: there is none
<dwihno>	Bagder: Erhm, you are kidding?
<Bagder>	or at least, the one I got is worse than crap
<dwihno>	ah, okay
<dwihno>	I was wondering about how the playlist is like on the recorder
<elinenbe>	well, it may spin up to buffer every 15 seconds in agressive, that way if you are running, and it is unable to buffer due to shock, then it will try again very soon.  Currently if you are running and it tries to buffer, and it can't then it stops, and most likely you have to restart the machine
<dwihno>	elinenbe: Maybe you can tell me... ?
<elinenbe>	what would you like to know>
<dwihno>	hm
<dwihno>	How do you navigate?
<dwihno>	How does shuffle work?
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<elinenbe>	there is a quick user guide (that is very accurate and descriptive at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/archosjukebox6000/files/AJB6000%20Quick%20Reference%20Guide
<dwihno>	Does it play every directory consistently?
<dwihno>	Even on the recorder model?
<elinenbe>	http://groups.yahoo.com/group/archosjukebox6000/files/AJBR%20Quick%20Reference%20Guide
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<dwihno>	Rockbox - Because vanilla is not liquorice
<Bagder>	hehe
<dwihno>	What do you think about that for a slogan?
<Zagor>	haha
<dwihno>	Damn, I want myself a recorder-20! :)~~
<Bagder>	it rocks... boxes ;-)
*	Bagder curses his bmp.c
<dwihno>	What's wrong?
<Bagder>	I can't seem to get the proper pixels
<dwihno>	Is the header parsed correctly?
<Bagder>	yes
<Bagder>	but not the image itself
<dwihno>	strange
<dwihno>	did you test the code on wintendo?
<Bagder>	heck no
<Bagder>	;-)
<dwihno>	hehe...
<Bagder>	I don't have a win compiler and I don't want any
<dwihno>	MY libbmp.c works ;D
<dwihno>	although it still depends on win32 headers
<dwihno>	which is really really really gay
<Bagder>	well, ok, I'll commit my code and you can all see and laugh at me
<dwihno>	Committing buggy code?! That's breaking the prime directive! :)
<Bagder>	it isn't being used so it doesn't matter
<dwihno>	ah, okay
<dwihno>	what are you going to use it for?
<Bagder>	I wanna be able to load a logo from disk
<dwihno>	for what?
<dwihno>	the test environment, the archos hardware?
<Bagder>	both
<dwihno>	okay
<Bagder>	http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/rockbox/uisimulator/bmp.c?rev=1.1&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup
<dwihno>	* $Id$
<dwihno>	What's that line?
<dwihno>	I never understood those
<Bagder>	a comment ;-)
<Bagder>	generated by CVS
<Bagder>	file, file version, date, committed, state
<Bagder>	comitter
<dwihno>	ah, okay
<dwihno>	cute :)
<Bagder>	its convenient
<dwihno>	I can try to make my libbmp do the same thing on windows
<dwihno>	What about the output format?
<Bagder>	hm
<Bagder>	I could mail you the code I use to call that and output the logo on screen
<dwihno>	sure
<Bagder>	using printf() a lot of"*"
<Bagder>	:-)
<Bagder>	address?
<dwihno>	dwihno@hotmail.com
<Bagder>	I sent you my whole function, just remove the lcd-functions
<dwihno>	mkay
<dwihno>	Hmm, I guess you aren't the one who sent the "eliminate cellulites" e-mail ;)
<Bagder>	haha
<dwihno>	I should fix my loader so it doesn't use windows headers too
<Bagder>	I think this is easier to debug if I create a smaller and simpler bmp to play with
<Bagder>	let me know if you find anything, I won't be able to do anything more today
<dwihno>	sure
<dwihno>	I'm soon off to get home, so I can get some fun stuff done ;)
<Bagder>	see ya
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<dwihno>	I'm soon off to get home, so I can get some fun stuff done ;)
<dwihno>	oops
<dwihno>	soryr ;)
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<Zagor>	gotta go. bye!
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<edx>	hi
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<edx>	night.
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<dwihno>	BAGDER! :D
<Bagder>	morning
*	dwihno vinks
<dwihno>	Did you solve the bitmap loader problem yesterday?
<Bagder>	no
<Bagder>	didn't do anything more
<Bagder>	you?
<dwihno>	I got it working
<dwihno>	I got to write some extra stuff to flip the bitmap vertically and remove all windows stuff
<dwihno>	HPALETTE's and stuff = typical nono
<Bagder>	so, did you add it to the simulator too? ;-)
<dwihno>	erhm
<dwihno>	nope :)
<Bagder>	hehe
<dwihno>	I have a life(tm) too ;)
<Bagder>	aaaaah
<Bagder>	that life thing they talk about ;-)
<dwihno>	yeah, once you had it, you're hooked!
<dwihno>	First fix is always free
<Bagder>	so, do you wanna add it to the simulator or can you mail me your working version?
<dwihno>	I want to fix it first
<Bagder>	fair enough 
<dwihno>	What model did you have?
<Bagder>	you mean which picture?
<dwihno>	not really :) what archos model :)
<Bagder>	ah, a recorder
<Bagder>	the only sane choice imho
<dwihno>	6, 10 or 20?
<Bagder>	do they really exist less than 20?
<dwihno>	I know there is a 10 gig model
<dwihno>	But you're making me uncertain :)
<Bagder>	it doesn't really matter... I have 20 fine GB ;-)
<dwihno>	there is a 10 gig model
<dwihno>	When activating the device, how many seconds does it take before it starts?
<Bagder>	hm, dunno, maybe 4 seconds
<Bagder>	maybe a little more
<dwihno>	That fast?
<dwihno>	Starts playing, that is...
<Bagder>	uh, that fast to start up and offer me the interface
<Bagder>	then I need to pick an action
<Bagder>	if I wanna read a playlist, it'll take longe since that is pretty slow
<Bagder>	longer
<dwihno>	ah, okay
<dwihno>	Which are the alternatives? Playlist, configuration, ... ?
<Bagder>	I'm not a very frequent Archos user, so I'm not the one to tell you about all the magic stuff
<Bagder>	I only got my unit for like two months ago
<Bagder>	and I intend to run our software, not getting used to the built-in ;-)
<dwihno>	ah, okay :)
<dwihno>	:-)
<dwihno>	Do you use the rockbox software right now?
<Bagder>	no, there's no available target version yet
<Bagder>	I only run it using the simulator
<dwihno>	The magic of writing software :)
<dwihno>	Are playlists required in order to use the player, or can you play a directory at a time?
<Bagder>	you can play a directory at a time, yes
<Bagder>	without a playlist
<dwihno>	but it can't auto-switch directory when the 'current' directory is finished?
<Bagder>	I don't think so
<Bagder>	or rather, I don't know
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<dwihno>	as long as it works ;)
<dwihno>	Although I'll probably upgrade to rockbox once it has reached a production state
<dwihno>	okay, now I got the structs all working
<dwihno>	Time to remove windoze code
<dwihno>	C:\wip\.src\archos>make
<dwihno>	gcc -O2 -c test.c
<dwihno>	gcc -o bmp.exe test.o ../bmp/libbmp.o
<dwihno>	C:\wip\.src\archos>bmp
<dwihno>	*                                      *
<dwihno>	  *  * **** **** *  * **** **** *   *
<dwihno>	  *  * *  * *    *  * *  * *  * *   *
<dwihno>	  ***  *  * *    * *  *  * *  *  * *
<dwihno>	  *  * *  * *    **   **** *  *   *
<dwihno>	  *  * *  * *    * *  *  * *  *  * *
<dwihno>	  **** **** **** *  * **** **** *   *
<dwihno>	*                                      *
<dwihno>	yay
<dwihno>	:)
<dwihno>	the power of upside-down bitmaps
<dwihno>	gotta fix that.
<Bagder>	nicers
<dwihno>	libbmp.h:26: warning: malformed `#pragma pack'
<dwihno>	Hmm
*	dwihno turns into a question mark
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<Bagder>	morning Tumm
<dwihno>	Damn computer!
<dwihno>	I hate when this happens!
<dwihno>	I got problems with byte alignment :/
<Bagder>	all of a sudden?
<dwihno>	nah
<dwihno>	when testing the code on an intel linux box
<Bagder>	aha
<Bagder>	gcc?
<dwihno>	It nags about my #pragma pack, which works perfectly on wintendo
<dwihno>	yup
<Bagder>	wait
<dwihno>	2.92.3-6 for Wintendo, and 2.92.2 on the linux-box
<Bagder>	#ifdef __GNUC__
<Bagder>	#define STRUCT_PACKED __attribute__((packed))
<Bagder>	#endif
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<Bagder>	you need to put that on the declaration of the struct
---	Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
<Bagder>	hey bro
<Zagor>	hi
<dwihno>	Hello Dr. Zagor
<Zagor>	yay, another virus on the list
<Zagor>	gotta love windows
<Bagder>	yeah
<Bagder>	grrrreat
<Bagder>	then again, you should be glad you're not on the wget list 
<Zagor>	i am :)
<Zagor>	glad, that is
<Bagder>	2-3 viruses PER DAY
<Bagder>	and then the darned virus-reports coming in right afterwards
<dwihno>	[~/wip/src/archos] ./bmp
<dwihno>	*                                      *
<dwihno>	  *  * **** **** *  * **** **** *   *
<dwihno>	  *  * *  * *    *  * *  * *  * *   *
<dwihno>	  ***  *  * *    * *  *  * *  *  * *
<dwihno>	  *  * *  * *    **   **** *  *   *
<dwihno>	  *  * *  * *    * *  *  * *  *  * *
<dwihno>	  **** **** **** *  * **** **** *   *
<dwihno>	*                                      *
<dwihno>	YAY! :D
<dwihno>	Thanks Bagder! You ownz
<Bagder>	heh, np
<dwihno>	I want to order an archos now!
<Bagder>	go go go ;-)
<dwihno>	:D
<dwihno>	I'm awaiting pricing information
<dwihno>	And cash
<dwihno>	I'm gonna sell one of my computers this weekend
<Bagder>	btw, you working or are you a student?
<dwihno>	Hmm, I'm not a student (yet)
<dwihno>	And I'm not really working either
<dwihno>	"UNGDOMSPRAKTIK!" :D
<dwihno>	I guess it's equivalent to working... :)
<Bagder>	ah, youngster eh? ;-)
<dwihno>	Not really
<dwihno>	22 :)
<dwihno>	Old man
<Bagder>	heh, kiddo ;*)
<dwihno>	Lost my job, didn't get a new, and the ungdomsgaranti kicked in
<dwihno>	Just because you're all old hags ;)
<dwihno>	nah, j/k
*	Bagder leans over his cane and goes for more coffee
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<dwihno>	#### #  #  ### #          ### #  #  ### #### #  #  ##  #####
<dwihno>	#    #  #   #  #         #    #  #   #     # ## # #  #   #
<dwihno>	#    #  #   #  #         #    #  #   #    #  ## # #  #   #
<dwihno>	###  #  #   #  #          #   ####   #    #  # ## ####   #
<dwihno>	#    #  #   #  #           #  #  #   #   #   # ## #  #   #
<dwihno>	#    # #    #  #            # #  #   #   #   #  # #  #   #
<dwihno>	#    ##     #  #            # #  #   #  #    #  # #  #   #
<dwihno>	#### #     ### ####      ###  #  #  ### #### #  # #  #   #
<dwihno>	:-D
<dwihno>	Beware of evil bitmap l<><6C><EFBFBD>d<EFBFBD>r
<PsycoXul>	so what is it that drains the batteries while the units turned off
<Bagder>	dwihno: wooo ;-)
<Linus>	PsycoXul: Player or recorder?
<PsycoXul>	player
<dwihno>	Bagder: Who needs figlet when you have bitmap loader ;D
<Linus>	The recorder doesn't really turn off, AFAIK, but I don't know that the Player drained the batteries.
<Bagder>	hey, never underestimate figlet!
<dwihno>	can figlet produce ascii boobs from pr0n images? I don't think so! :D
<PsycoXul>	                   _            
<PsycoXul>	 ___ _  _ ___   __| |_____ __ __
<PsycoXul>	/ -_) || / -_) / _` / -_) V  V /
<PsycoXul>	\___|\_, \___| \__,_\___|\_/\_/ 
<PsycoXul>	     |__/                       
<PsycoXul>	dwihno: thats what aalib's for
<dwihno>	:-)
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<calpefrosch|work>	morning
<Bagder>	morning 
<Linus>	morning, Froggy!
<Bagder>	frogger
<Bagder>	we should have a frogger!
<Bagder>	:-)
<Linus>	Lode Runner
<calpefrosch|work>	haha
<Bagder>	pac man
*	calpefrosch|work thinks about to change the nick
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---	pacman is now known as calpefrosch
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<Zagor_>	oops :)
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<dwihno>	Hurra! Nu funkar det
<dwihno>	Hoorrr<72>jj, it's w<><77>rking
<dwihno>	Zagor: order me an Archos through your company, mkay? :)
<Zagor>	hehe. sure. one cardboard box coming up. blue marker: "Archos Juckbox"
<dwihno>	:-)
<dwihno>	Could you do that, s'il vous plait? :)
<Linus>	Bj<42>rn har ingen attestr<74>tt
<Linus>	haha
<dwihno>	Linus: har du det?
*	Linus hides
<dwihno>	HAHAHA!
<dwihno>	:D
<Linus>	dwihno: what is working?
<dwihno>	Linus: bitm<74>p l<>jder, with support for vertical flip ;D
<Linus>	Woo. Flipping! C00l!
<dwihno>	Hehe
<dwihno>	You bet! :D
<dwihno>	How hard is it to replace the batteries btw?
<Bagder>	Isn't there any pics of that somewhere among yours, Zagor?
<dwihno>	 ##  ###    ## #  #  ##   ###      ###   ##  #  #  ##  #  #   #
<dwihno>	#  # #  #  #   #  # #  # #         #  # #  # #  # #  # #  #   #
<dwihno>	#  # #  # #    #  # #  # #         #  # #  # #  # #  # #  #   #
<dwihno>	#### ###  #    #### #  #  #        ###  #  # #  # #### ####   #
<dwihno>	#  # # #  #    #  # #  #   #       #    #  # ## # #  # #  #   #
<dwihno>	#  # #  # #    #  # #  #    #      #    #  # #### #  # #  #
<dwihno>	#  # #  # #    #  # #  #    #      #    #  # #### #  # #  #   #
<dwihno>	#  # #  #  ### #  #  ##  ###       #     ##  #  # #  # #  #   #
<dwihno>	:-)
<Bagder>	uh
<dwihno>	<-- is a bit insane today, sorry ;)
<Zagor>	Bagder: no, it's much too simple to have instructions :)
<Zagor>	dwihno: look at any photo
<Zagor>	the two silver cylinders on each side are plastic battery covers. just lift them and take out the batteries.
<Linus>	Easy as pie
<Zagor>	http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/mods/disassemble.html <--- first picture shows archos without battery covers
<dwihno>	Linus: People say they are scared to destroy some weak plastic details
<Zagor>	then don't destroy them :)
<dwihno>	Hehe
<dwihno>	I guess I will be careful the day it's time to switch batteries
<Zagor>	i have never heard of anyone breaking the battery covers
<Linus>	I wonder if anyone has managed to destroy it. You need strong and clumsy hands to do that.
<dwihno>	Is it possible to replace the batteries without removing the cover?
<Zagor>	of course not, then they would fall out!
<Linus>	Maybe some sort of teleportation. :-)
<dwihno>	:-)
<Linus>	Almost every electronic device in this world has a cover over the batteries.
<dwihno>	:)
<Zagor>	dwihno: can you change your walkman batteries with removing the cover?
<Linus>	without
<dwihno>	Men apor p<> er allts<74>
<dwihno>	Utan att skruva loss lockhelvetet d<>! :)
<Zagor>	there are no screws
<Linus>	No screws
<dwihno>	Ah, I was thinking if I had to buy torx-screwdrivers and stuff to replace the batteries...
<Linus>	Those pictures described how to take the archos apart, not how to replace the batteries
<dwihno>	I will upgrade my Archos with an 8 meg memory module ;D
<dwihno>	Should be possible.
<Zagor>	it *is* possible
<Zagor>	in theory :)
<Bagder>	without touching any screws? B-]
<dwihno>	Bagder: I left the battery subject already ;)
<dwihno>	Zagor: yeah, replacing the current memory circuit with a new, and modifying the firmwarez
<Zagor>	dwihno: but you need serious electronics skills
*	Bagder ignores dwihno's comment and spins his chair
<dwihno>	Zagor: I did lego when I was a kid, is that sufficient? ;)
<dwihno>	Just kidding
<dwihno>	Just playing around with the idea
<Linus>	The problem is that the DRAM controller might have to be programmed differently
<Linus>	and that is done by the firmware in ROM
<Linus>	so when our firmware is loaded, it is already too late
<Linus>	because the firmware is loaded in DRAM
<Linus>	tricky stuff
<dwihno>	ah
<dwihno>	okat
<dwihno>	okay
<dwihno>	Well, 2 mb buffer sounds much enough :)
<dwihno>	2 megs = 2 minutes of shock proofing?
<Bagder>	we will need *some* ram for the software too
<Linus>	dwihno: it's not really for shock proofing. It is for battery conservation.
<Linus>	A hard drive can't stand much of a shock anyway.
<dwihno>	Linus: Yeah, I guess HD access eats baguett... erhm... batteries like a crazy frenchman on a saucisson ;)
<Linus>	That's a way to put it. And the Archos is a french product. :-)
<dwihno>	IT IS?! :D
<Bagder>	I feed my Archos with baguettes ;-)
<Linus>	Yup.
<dwihno>	Cool
<dwihno>	I thought it was designed by some crappy hong-kong company
<dwihno>	Like A-MAX (they did the NAPA players)
<Linus>	No. A crappy french company.
<Linus>	:)
<dwihno>	Does the Archos feel like "beta" hardware?
<Zagor>	no, i don't think so
*	Bagder doesn't think so either
<dwihno>	Right now, I have a Philips expanium (EXP 100 model) ... It's quite nice
<dwihno>	But toasting discs is quite bothersome
<Linus>	A few slight HW modifications would have made the life much easier for the software.
<dwihno>	and the archos could be used for my project stuff
<dwihno>	Linus: for instance... ?
<Bagder>	COOOFFFFEEEEE
<dwihno>	<-- is making a copy of the archos using evil paper
<Linus>	The Frame Sync and Demand outputs from the MAS should be inverted and routed to different IRQ pins
<dwihno>	How can you know this much about the hardware?
<Linus>	so that you can have IRQ's on both edges
<dwihno>	Did you get some development docs or are you just hardware gurus?
<Zagor>	magic :)
<Linus>	...and a multimeter
<dwihno>	And a hammer! :D
<Zagor>	no docs. pure reverse engineering from start to finish.
<dwihno>	You can't ponder around with hardware unless you have a hammer
<dwihno>	I'm impressed by the progress :)
<Linus>	Our dilemma in that case is that we have a need to assemble it again. :-)
<dwihno>	hehe
<dwihno>	tip: karlssons klister!
<Linus>	We have quite a bunch of talented people working in the project
<dwihno>	<-- is impressed. Much like Mike Levy
<Linus>	who is mike levy?
<dwihno>	He did commercial in the 90's
<dwihno>	for "amazing discoveries"
<Linus>	ah
<dwihno>	He also got his own show, called "Ask Mike" :)
<dwihno>	All the old ladies adored him
<dwihno>	my 1:1 model of the archos is now done!
<dwihno>	Yay
<dwihno>	it feels a bit thick
<Bagder>	compare it with the competitors
<Bagder>	like the nomad
<Bagder>	and it'll feel thin ;-)
<dwihno>	Never seen those
<dwihno>	Does it feel solid?
<Zagor>	yes
<dwihno>	My paper model is lightweight :D
<Bagder>	add 270grams or whatever it is
<dwihno>	I should mail my model to the guys at Archos and tell them to use my design ;D
---	Linus is now known as Linus|lunch
---	Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch
<dwihno>	Oj
<dwihno>	Anar jag en lunchdate?! :D
<Bagder>	that might have to do with those two guys sitting at the same place all days... :-)
<dwihno>	That sounds a bit kinky ;)
<Bagder>	that's up to you ;-)
<dwihno>	loadBMP("test.bmp", &mythingie);
<Bagder>	and mythingie is a struct of some kind?
<dwihno>	yup
<dwihno>	with a bitmap, resolution and some windows gayness
---	Linus|lunch is now known as Linus
---	Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor
<dwihno>	Did you enjoy your lunch? :)
<Linus>	Sallad
<Zagor>	chicken salad. mmmm...
<dwihno>	Where did you eat?
<Linus>	Yellow Corner in Lilla Alby
*	Zagor surfed in on sourcefourge.net as got a surprise
<dwihno>	ALBY?!
<dwihno>	:D
<Zagor>	s/as/and/
<dwihno>	You work there?!
<Bagder>	lilla alby
<Linus>	near Sundbyberg
<dwihno>	What do you guys do for a living?
<Bagder>	guess!
<Linus>	Computer consultant, embedded programming
<dwihno>	Monkey-spankers :)
<Linus>	eeh?
<dwihno>	just kidding
<dwihno>	I envy you
<dwihno>	Hire me
<dwihno>	Okay?
<Linus>	:-)
<dwihno>	I can work for a low salary :)
<dwihno>	And sing songs every day to keep up the work spirit
<dwihno>	Just hire me.
<dwihno>	:-)
<dwihno>	Seriousley, where do I send my application and CV? :)
<Bagder>	www.contactor.se
<Bagder>	but the hiring is kind of idling atm
*	Bagder runs for lunch
<dwihno>	17.00 b<>rjar kontorsm<73>tet. Jag hinner precis stoppa i mig en baguette med r<>kr<6B>ra innan Lasse, v<>r VD, ber<65>ttar om status p<> olika uppdrag, ekonomin, planerade konferenser och om nyanst<73>llda.
<dwihno>	Mmm... Baguette
<dwihno>	Idag <20>r vi 64 konsulter med en genomsnittlig branscherfarenhet av mer <20>n 12 <20>r
<dwihno>	IIIIH!
<dwihno>	I've been working for 1.5 year :(
<dwihno>	http://www.contactor.se/pics/bjorn.jpg
<dwihno>	YAY :D
<Zagor>	:)
<dwihno>	Do you have any use for a newbie like me? :)
<Zagor>	not currently
<dwihno>	10: print "hell<6C>"
<dwihno>	20: goto 10
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<dwihno>	Ingen som har en dom<6F>n d<>r jag kan f<> l<>gga in en host? :/
<Zagor>	english, dwihno
<Zagor>	and rockbox related, please :)
<dwihno>	:-/
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<chris1>	hi
<Bagder>	hey chris1
<Linus>	yo
<dw|bbl>	yo
---	dw|bbl is now known as dwihn0r
<chris1>	last night I have some trouble to rune the SSH2 stuff on W32 XP. Now I can update the cvs
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<Bagder>	wooo, getting crowded ;-)
<Linus>	A largs, silent crowd
<calpefrosch>	yeah, many people are unsatisfied with the orig firmware
<PsycoXul>	according to the player LCD's pdf its chars are 5x8 ... they look 5x7 but it would explain why i got garbage in the double-height with my 5x7 chars
<PsycoXul>	the player's firmware seems to me like it was a hacked together peice of code with minimal acceptable functionality
<PsycoXul>	i can't say anything for the recorders
<Linus>	the recorder is quite nice. IMHO
<PsycoXul>	but personally i see many indications in the player's default firmware's interface and other things that it wasn't taken seriously
<dwihn0r>	Linus: Zagor mentioned something about a buzz with the recorder model... Do you know what he means?
<dwihn0r>	Or maybe I should ask him directly :)
<Linus>	Yes I know.
<dwihn0r>	What was the fuzz about the buzz? :D
<PsycoXul>	i do get the feeling that the recorder's firmware was taken more seriously though, for obvious reasons related to the hardware, and started from a cleaner point... but as i don't have experience with the recorder's, that just a hunch heh
<dwihn0r>	What kind of buzz?
<Linus>	It's a small buzz, that is audible in silent parts of the music
<dwihn0r>	:(
<dwihn0r>	Can you live with it?
<Linus>	it seems that it comes when the firmware is updating the LCD
<Linus>	Yes you can live with it.
<dwihn0r>	I mean, some players have a rather loud hiss noise
<dwihn0r>	which drives you crazy and wack!
<Linus>	We are talking about having an LCD OFF feature in the Rockbox that doesn't talk to the LCD at all
<Linus>	when you are listening to music
<chris1>	an the recoder firmeware 24a , the lcd have some time as split screen effect.This the point where the Recorder need a reset. The FAT driver has hangs in the orginal Factory disk format. Current I can not record . The 25b Firmeware say no disk space. i have 10 G off free discspace. 
<calpefrosch>	I have a recorder, and I wanted to listen to "Lords of Rings" as spoken text. The buzzing drives me crazy...
<PsycoXul>	what bitrate is it
<chris1>	any
<Linus>	Some people have analyzed the hardware, and they think it can be filtered with a small H/W patch
<Linus>	maybe only some better grounding
<dwihn0r>	How loud is the buzz noise?
<calpefrosch>	not so loud, but you can hear it.
<Linus>	I can't say. I'm not disturbed by it. I guess I'm too old. :-)
<dwihn0r>	Can you compare it to some real life sound? :)
<Zagor>	dwihn0r: it depends a lot on your headphones, too. some people don't get it at all
<calpefrosch>	like a dropping in the night. Not loud, but it drives you crazy after a time
<Zagor>	dwihn0r: it's like a fly against the window in a normal room. completely unhearable over a normal conversation, but you pick it up when the room is quiet
<dwihn0r>	I'm just a bit worried I will feel I threw the money in the trashcan :/
<Zagor>	where do you plan to buy it?
<dwihn0r>	Dustin
<Linus>	dwihn0r: who would buy an MP3 player just to hear some good silence? :-)
<Zagor>	I have the recorder, with buzz, and the player without buzz. I still prefer to use the Recorder
<chris1>	what is buzz ?
<dwihn0r>	Linus: True, but in silent parts, I want to hear silence and no buzz! :)
<Linus>	I know, just teasing
<calpefrosch>	chris1: it's a sizzling noise
<Bagder>	buzz: "   1.  To make a low droning or vibrating sound like that of a bee."
<Bagder>	I've never even heard the buzz in fact ;-)
<chris1>	buzz like the 60 Hz power volatage sound
<chris1>	have have buy new earphones , so I have not to turne on to 100% the vol. And the buzz sound is fly away. :)
<chris1>	how is the name of the USB2IDE Chip convert. On the webpage I can not found this info.
<chris1>	max XXX ?
<chris1>	isd 200 ?
<Zagor>	isd200
<Zagor>	and isd300 for the recorder20
<chris1>	where your get the info for the register ? PDFs?
<Zagor>	which register?
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<chris1>	some tech notes abort the isd200 interface 
<Zagor>	http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/docs/ISD200_data_sheet20.pdf
<Zagor>	but don't spread it, they've asked me to keep it internal
<chris1>	ok. thanks
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<chris1>	ohh. look like the firmeware will check any second if the isd200 has a usb connect flag set. If so the firemware will setup the bus and go halt. In the same secound will the isd200 function full enable. No way the use to USB for data send and write to memory.For a RockBox <-> Usb Pc  connect.
<Zagor>	yes, something like that
<chris1>	<dream> use ham packet radio technics for debuging on the recorder </dream>
<Zagor>	haha
<Zagor>	gotta go. bye!
<Bagder>	bye Zagor
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<[TDM]Mr_B>	anyone here/
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<[TDM]Mr_B>	hello?
<[TDM]Mr_B>	anybody?
<PsycoXul>	usualy not this time of day
<[TDM]Mr_B>	I have a question about my new JBR 20
<PsycoXul>	there's some good forums on funmp3players.com and a mailing list on yahoo, specific to archos jukebox recorders and players in general
<PsycoXul>	this channels more geared towards the opensource software development for them, but of course there's technically-minded people familiar with the devices here so
<PsycoXul>	whats your question?
<PsycoXul>	the main rockbox developers aren't even here right now heh
<[TDM]Mr_B>	well, I just got it and installed 1.26 firmware I d/led a while ago.  i then saw 1.27c and installed it but when I boot up it shows 1.26 and then 1.27c...slowing boot time
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<gizz>	hi all
<gizz>	cool..
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<[TDM]Mr_B>	...
<PsycoXul>	the original firmware is permanently in a ROM chip in the device
<PsycoXul>	new firmware gets loaded by it from the harddrive
<PsycoXul>	thats exactly the expected behaviour
<PsycoXul>	it shouldn't slow the boot time by any significant amount
<[TDM]Mr_B>	ok, thanks...I just thought 1.16 was in ROM
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<PsycoXul>	hmm
<PsycoXul>	weird
<PsycoXul>	i thought he meant 1.26 was in rom didn't see that he installed that himself... eh hmmm
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<dwihno>	Good morning everyone! God morgon allihopa! Bienvenue! Guten morgen!
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<dwihno>	BAGDIE! :D
<dwihno>	*vinka*
<Bagder>	hey ho
<dwihno>	I'm no ho'! :D
<Bagder>	sorry, hey hno ;-)
<Bagder>	gcc 3.1 is out...
<dwihno>	It is? :)
<dwihno>	Cool
<Bagder>	~26 MB tarball 
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<Bagder>	morning calpefrosch
<dwihno>	I'll wait for binary packages for mingw32
<calpefrosch|work>	morning all
<Bagder>	I compile it right now, it'll take ages to complete ;-)
<dwihno>	:-)
<dwihno>	Well, you're still young ;)
<adiamas>	hye all...
<adiamas>	ive been away a bit.. i miss anything major?
<Bagder>	no
<Bagder>	just talking about gcc 3.1
<adiamas>	ahhh
<adiamas>	ill stay with 2.95.3 till 3 has been out a little longer,
<Bagder>	I use several ;-)
<calpefrosch|work>	why isn't there a stdbool.h in win32 VC++ ??
<dwihno>	2.95.3 is fine
<Bagder>	not for weirdo c++ stuff
<Bagder>	calpefrosch|work: because that's a C99 thing and VC++ is not C99 compliant
<Bagder>	make your own in the win32 directory
<calpefrosch|work>	ok, tnx
<Bagder>	just typedef a bool, and #define true and false
<dwihno>	Bagder: For plain C, it is usable :)
<Bagder>	oh certainly
<dwihno>	Although the OO approach is so much cooler
<Bagder>	at times
<dwihno>	For let's say, a library for loading images
<dwihno>	BMP's, GIF's, etc
<dwihno>	:-)
<dwihno>	That would rock so damn much! :D
<Bagder>	I see OO abused to very often at work, it has ruined my view of it
<Bagder>	so very
<dwihno>	Too bad I'm a bad C++ coder :/
<dwihno>	Give me an example of the abusement you've seen
<Bagder>	one of the most common is the over-objectification
<Bagder>	grrrr
<Bagder>	build fails...
<Bagder>	and again
*	Bagder curses gcc 3.1
<dwihno>	Get some binaries :)
<Bagder>	I'll bet that won't wotk either
<Bagder>	my system is built by tarballs mostly
<dwihno>	okay
<Bagder>	no binary packages like this, they always fail on some dependencies
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<Bagder>	hey zick-zaggie
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<Zagor>	yo
<dwihno>	TJOHO ZAGOR! :D
<Zagor>	hello there
<dwihno>	www.klitta.nu/ume <- please give me your personal opinions
*	Bagder crosses his fingers, the gcc build is now doing better
<Bagder>	no
<Bagder>	now, should I try to fix this or just wait for the next release? ;-)
<dwihno>	or the third option: wait for binary packages ;D
<Bagder>	no, that's not an option for me
<dwihno>	:)
*	Bagder goes to fill up his coffee with that black stuff
<Bagder>	uh
<Bagder>	gee
*	Bagder stops trying to type and just hides
*	Zagor doesn't want to know what black stuff Bagder takes in his coffee
<dwihno>	:-)
<dwihno>	<-- got coffee, and polarbr<62>d
<dwihno>	and three pieces of sugar
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<wavey>	morn ppl
<Bagder>	morning
*	dwihno hugs everybody. Today everything just ... rocks :)
<wavey>	glad to hear it :)
<dwihno>	:-D
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<Bagder>	morning Linus
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<Bagder>	do I sense that Linus is unaware of all our application efforts? ;-)
<wavey>	heheh
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<dwihno>	which what who where?
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<Bagder>	dwihno: aren't you subscribed on the mailing list yey?
<Bagder>	yet
<dwihno>	Bagder: No, I'm too lame.
<Linus>	yes I am very unaware. :-)
<Linus>	What is this application?
*	Bagder counts to 96 subscribers right now
<Bagder>	Linus: the player one is Bj<42>rns dir tree browser
<Linus>	ok
<Bagder>	the recorder one is dir browser, tetris and a screen saver
<Linus>	ah
<Bagder>	and both can show id3 tags
<Linus>	Simulator stuff, as of now
<Linus>	Nice
<Bagder>	yes
<Bagder>	but why sim only?
<Bagder>	they should run on targe too, right?
<Linus>	So I guess you are all waiting for my MPEG thread?
<Bagder>	not necessarily
<Linus>	It works
<Bagder>	the apps can run without it
<Linus>	just not perfectly
<Linus>	It isn't glitch-free between songs
<Linus>	and it can't seek()
<Linus>	yet
<dwihno>	Does the Archos firmware allow in-track seek:ing?
<Zagor>	yes
<dwihno>	Whoa... There's something new! :O
<dwihno>	Simple to use even with 2 hours mp3 lengths?
<PsycoXul>	its like cd player seeking\
<dwihno>	okay
<PsycoXul>	you press and hold the forward button till you get where you want to be
<PsycoXul>	or backward or whatever
<dwihno>	Does it take an eternity to seek to let's say 1.5 hour?
<PsycoXul>	probably
<Zagor>	uh, yes :)
<dwihno>	ah, mkay :)
<dwihno>	Damn
<dwihno>	I just rang my friend to get the root password
<dwihno>	I woke him up, and now the password isn't correct!
<PsycoXul>	so what about playlist code, is that part of an app yet?
<Bagder>	not yet
<Bagder>	we should get that part moving
<Bagder>	dwihno: did you get anywhere further on the bmp stuff, anything to send me? ;-)
<dwihno>	Bagder: I found out it glitches when the resolution isn't a multiple of 2
<dwihno>	How many hours does it take to make a subdomain active?
<Bagder>	make a domain active? in what regard?
<dwihno>	hmm
<dwihno>	Getting a hostname bound to a ip
<dwihno>	dw.lahma.net -> a box
<Bagder>	if its a new name added, it'll take effect almost immediately
<dwihno>	damn
<dwihno>	then it wasn't done
<dwihno>	DAMN DAMN DAMN
<dwihno>	:-/
<Bagder>	gcc 3.1 probably is a boring thing anyway :-O
<Zagor>	haha
<Zagor>	no go?
<Bagder>	no
<dwihno>	Bagder: Never underestimate the power of binary packages :)
<Bagder>	bugger off
<Bagder>	binary packages are evil
<dwihno>	Bagder: What system are you trying to compile it for?
<Bagder>	linux i386
<Bagder>	i686 rather
<dwihno>	hm
<dwihno>	then it's weird
<dwihno>	what kind of errors do you get?
<Linus>	You didn't manage to compile gcc 3.1?
<Bagder>	checking whether the C compiler (/home/daniel/src/gcc-3.1/gcc/xgcc -B/home/daniel/src/gcc-3.1/gcc/ -B/usr/local/gcc3/i686-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ -B/usr/local/gcc3/i686-pc-linux-gnu/lib/ -isystem /usr/local/gcc3/i686-pc-linux-gnu/include -g -O2 ) works... no
<Linus>	oh
<Bagder>	this is when it switches to compile with xgcc
<Bagder>	I'll try with another original compiler
<Bagder>	right, that works better
<Bagder>	3.0.3 can't build 3.1 :-/
<Bagder>	me and my mouth
<Bagder>	*dang*
<Bagder>	failed
<Linus>	It looks like you are incompetent :-)
<Bagder>	yeah
<Bagder>	I'm a fool
<Linus>	Your brain hurts?
<Bagder>	a lot!
<Linus>	Did you have to upgrade the binutils?
<Bagder>	I like the patch release 3.0.4 = 3.1, 17MB!
<Bagder>	no binutiles upgrade, no
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<Bagder>	your simultaneous comings and goings look very cute ;-)
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<dwihno>	:)
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<Zagor>	wacko proxy :(
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<chris1>	nice mails
<Linus>	you think?
<Linus>	I am listening to music on my Rockbox as we speak.
<Zagor>	so, guys, what do we do about the apps module?
<Zagor>	smack everything in root, and add 'player' and 'recorder' dirs only for the model-specific code?
<Bagder>	yes
<Bagder>	for now
<Bagder>	quick and easy
<Linus>	we can always change later (with the expense of losing CVS history)
*	Zagor is fixing
<dwihno>	 ##  ###    ## #  #  ##   ###      ###   ##  #  #  ##  #  #   #
<dwihno>	#  # #  #  #   #  # #  # #         #  # #  # #  # #  # #  #   #
<dwihno>	#  # #  # #    #  # #  # #         #  # #  # #  # #  # #  #   #
<dwihno>	#### ###  #    #### #  #  #        ###  #  # #  # #### ####   #
<dwihno>	#  # # #  #    #  # #  #   #       #    #  # ## # #  # #  #   #
<dwihno>	#  # #  # #    #  # #  #    #      #    #  # #### #  # #  #
<dwihno>	#  # #  # #    #  # #  #    #      #    #  # #### #  # #  #   #
<dwihno>	#  # #  #  ### #  #  ##  ###       #     ##  #  # #  # #  #   #
<dwihno>	Sorry, I just had to express myself
<Linus>	Bagder and Zagor: do your dir browsers only show MP3 files?
<Bagder>	no
<Bagder>	but they assume all files are mp3 ;-)
<dwihno>	COOL :D
<Bagder>	I mean, they'll check id3 tags on anything
<Linus>	Oh. So we might end up playing the ARCHOS.MOD?
<Bagder>	if you want, sure!
<dwihno>	if (!strcasecmp(filename.ext, "mp3")) return TRUE;
<dwihno>	there you have a function for quick detection of mp3-files ,D
<Linus>	But everybody wants a MOD player, so why not? :-)
<Zagor>	dwihno: no, that checks if the file is called "mp3", not if it ends with it :*)
<Zagor>	ah, ext. duh...
<dwihno>	:-)
<Linus>	My test code does just that
<chris1>	Daniel : your write  "The Archos Recorder uses a ISD300" on the PCB rec_main.pdf i see the ISD200 !?
<Bagder>	oh
<dwihno>	For a initial release, a simple extension check is more than sufficient :)
<Linus>	A schematic error
<Bagder>	chris1: then there's an error there
<Zagor>	chris1: only the recorder20 uses isd300, the older models use isd200
<Bagder>	aah
<Linus>	All recorders use ISD300, not?
<chris1>	I thing to my topic yesterday, there is a way to read and write memory from the PC-USB-> to Archos ( I have the Rec20 )
<Zagor>	Linus: no, only the 20
<Linus>	chris1: ???
<chris1>	The FAQ list say . "- Player control via USB"
<Linus>	shoot. tell me about the way
<Linus>	or was it a question?
<Zagor>	Linus: have you checked in all your mpeg code?
<Linus>	No. I'm working on it as we speak
<Zagor>	ok
<chris1>	I have jet no solution in my brain, I think it is posible on the rec20
<Linus>	But it seems to play glitch-free now
<Bagder>	woohooo
<Linus>	No volume control yet
*	dwihno hoorays for Linus
<Linus>	And no seek
*	Bagder kneels in front of Linus, we're not worthy...
<Linus>	No you're not
<dwihno>	:-)
<Linus>	:-)
<chris1>	is the button api ready, for hocking on keypress 
<Linus>	Maybe i should start working on the volume control. But that takes a hardware mod for me... :-(
<chris1>	vol control can impl. easy.
<Bagder>	what hw mod?
<Linus>	chris1: yes. Just write to the correct registers in the MAS with correct data.
<chris1>	is that a task ?
<Linus>	Bagder: The serial port is connected in the earphone plug. When I connect the earphones i short-circuit the debugger cable
<Linus>	chris1: a task?
<Bagder>	aha
<chris1>	sould I do that.
<Linus>	No need. I'm on it.
<Linus>	But thanks
<chris1>	ok
<Bagder>	isn't the lack of playlist code one of the white spots right now?
<Zagor>	well playlist isn't on the roadmap for 1.0 :-)
<Bagder>	when the mpeg thread works, we have no code that feeds songs to it
<Zagor>	right. so we can only play one song at a time
<Bagder>	of course, that's fine enough for v1
<Bagder>	but then...
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<chris1>	contractor.se : cs player :-)
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<dwihno>	I think both of them are only one person
<dwihno>	Someone with a split personality ;D
<dwihno>	With the ability to code for two
*	Bagder smiles
<chris1>	I think to.
*	dwihno just sneezed the screen full of snot
<PsycoXul>	both the decoder chip and the dac chip have some volume and sound controls
<PsycoXul>	imo there should be interfaces to all of it that there can be
<PsycoXul>	i think i'm going to build a tesla coil
<PsycoXul>	along with its components and generator to power it
<dwihno>	I am going to build a rymdraket out of navelludd
<PsycoXul>	huh?
<dwihno>	fluff from the navel :)
<dwihno>	spacerocket
<PsycoXul>	heh
<PsycoXul>	rockets are stupid
<dwihno>	If they come with warp drive, they are cool ;D
<PsycoXul>	what a waste of energy
<dwihno>	We got unlimited amounts of energy!
<PsycoXul>	well a warp drive isn't a rocket now is it
<PsycoXul>	warp drive's kindof a silly idea though
<dwihno>	Not really
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<PsycoXul>	no, it is :p
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<Zagor>	fun fun fun on the autobahn
<dwihno>	Did you enjoy lunch?
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<Zagor>	chris1: where did you see the cs info?
<chris1>	www.contactor.se
<Zagor>	huh, we mention cstrike there?
<dwihno>	You do nothing all day but play cs ;)
<Zagor>	right, but we shouldn't be telling people that :)
<chris1>	< UT
<Bagder>	Zagor: move those darned apps! ;-)
*	Bagder considers adding a little script for making tarball releases easier
<Zagor>	I'm on it. but people keep pulling me away for other, lesser, tasks :)
<Bagder>	scare them away!
<Linus>	you mean, like, work?
<Zagor>	no swearing, linus!
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<Linus>	yo
<Zagor>	is lcd_update() for the recorder only?
<Bagder>	yes
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*	Bagder made the bmp.c work
<Bagder>	it looks cool to the logo on place ;-)
<Linus>	We're not worthy...
<Linus>	Captain! Volume Control is now activated!
<Zagor>	Roger that.
<Zagor>	;)
<Bagder>	pump it up! ;-)
<Linus>	When I set it to 0dB it screams in the earphones! I don't dare to set it to maximum (18dB)
<Zagor>	isn't that damping? so 0dB is the loudest?
<Zagor>	s/damping/attenuation/
<Linus>	No. The lowest volume is -75dB
<Zagor>	ok
<Bagder>	any suggestion on how we do the little/big endian crap? Just hardcode them in the simulator Makefile?
<Linus>	eh?
<Bagder>	we need to switch a lot when reading binary
<Linus>	yes
<Bagder>	and what's the default, is the S1 big endian?
<Linus>	default is BE
<Bagder>	ok
<Linus>	So big endian should be default in the code as well
<Bagder>	yes
<Linus>	#ifdef LITTLE_ENDIAN
<Linus>	or something
<Bagder>	#ifdef LITTLE_ENDIAN
<Bagder>	#define readshort(x) x
<Bagder>	#else
<Bagder>	#define readshort(x) (((x&0xff00)>>8)|((x&0x00ff)<<8))
<Bagder>	!
<Bagder>	I could possibly removed the and
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<Zagor>	what's wrong with SWAB16 ?
<Bagder>	it's not documented in API ;-)
<Zagor>	hehe
<Bagder>	so therefor I didn't know about it
<Zagor>	it's implemented in assembler, so you still need to define it for uisimulator
<Bagder>	it should still be documented... :-)
<Zagor>	Bagder: why are you using float in id3.c?
<Linus>	Booooh
<Linus>	shame on you!
<Bagder>	I don't
<Linus>	Yes you do
<Bagder>	where?
<Zagor>	line 449: bpf *= 12000.0 * 4.0;
<Bagder>	ah
<Linus>	lame!
<Bagder>	will that acually use floats?
<Bagder>	bpf is an int
<Zagor>	the calculation will be made with float and then truncated
<Bagder>	so cut off the .0
<Zagor>	already done :)
<Bagder>	I converted that whole thing from float to int
<Bagder>	actually that calculation gets a bit "rough" without floats
<Bagder>	but I guess its ok anyway
<Bagder>	those variable bitrate files will blow it away pretty bad too
<Linus>	rough?
<Linus>	How?
<Bagder>	it lacks accuracy
<Bagder>	but it might not matter that much
<Linus>	how can a multiplication of a int with 48000 be better using a float?
<Bagder>	you're not thinking clearly now ;-)
<Bagder>	that single little snippet was a mistake
<Linus>	I never do
<Bagder>	the whole calc used LOADS of floats originally
<Linus>	ah. OK I understand
<chris1>	witch code is use on INTEL big or lite endian ?
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<dwihno>	I'd say big
<chris1>	http://www.byteswap.net/mikesnotes/2002/getting-started/byteorder.html >> little-endian byte order
<Linus>	Intel is little endian
<dwihno>	it is?
<dwihno>	ah, I got it mixed up with motorola
<Zagor>	Bagder: do we need both dmalloc and bmalloc, or should we select one of them?
<Bagder2>	both are used
<Bagder2>	dmalloc is the small-blocks alloc system
<Bagder2>	it gets big blocks from the bmalloc 
<Zagor>	so which one do I call from code?
<Bagder2>	the dmalloc ones
<Bagder2>	I believe there are some malloc => dmalloc #defines in dmalloc.h
<Zagor>	ah, good
<Bagder2>	if we end up doing malloc() only on big blocks, we'll skip dmalloc alltogether
<Linus>	You call malloc(9
<Linus>	not bmalloc or dmalloc
<Bagder2>	yes, the dmalloc.h defines malloc => dmalloc
<Linus>	ah
<Bagder2>	I prefer that way
<Linus>	It is not wise to do so. It is better to name it malloc()
<Bagder2>	why so?
<Linus>	newlib calls malloc, for example in strdup()
<Bagder2>	right
<Bagder2>	so we should rename the d-versions to the standard names
<Linus>	absolutely
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<Bagder2>	you want me to do it or do anyone of you?
<Zagor>	you do it. i've got other problems :)
<Bagder2>	ok
<Zagor>	change dmalloc to not use sprintf() while you're at it
<Bagder2>	for what?
<Zagor>	line 293 uses it for semaphore naming. use snprintf instead.
<Bagder2>	we don't have semaphores 
<Zagor>	true. i don't know why it's compiled.
<Bagder2>	renamed
<Zagor>	bmalloc.c:246 looks wrong
<Bagder2>	yes
<Bagder2>	I'll make the whole function dependent on DEBUG
<Zagor>	no, DEBUG is for DEBUGF, not for printf()
<Bagder2>	hehe
<Bagder2>	collision
<Zagor>	use DEBUG_SIM or something for printf()
<Bagder2>	DEBUG_MALLOC possibly
<Zagor>	that's fine too
<Bagder2>	fixed
<Zagor>	thanks
<Bagder2>	to init the malloc system, call these two:
<Bagder2>	dmalloc_initialize();
<Zagor>	you should probably remove the defines from dmalloc.h too :)
<Bagder2>	bmalloc_add_pool(thisisourheap, AMOUNT_OF_MEMORY);
<Bagder2>	I did
<Zagor>	oh
<Zagor>	ah, bad recompile
<Zagor>	bingo. apps/ builds a full archos.mod
<Bagder2>	c00lnezz
<Zagor>	0x39b4 bytes code
<dwihno>	Congratulations!
*	dwihno is not worthy
<Zagor>	...but i doubt it works :)
<Bagder2>	:-)
<dwihno>	Who cares, as long as it compiles :)
<dwihno>	(a.k.a the Microsoft development policy) ;)
<dwihno>	Btw, what is archos.mod?
<dwihno>	_THE_ app?
<Bagder2>	yes
<Bagder2>	the one we copy to the archos
<dwihno>	OH
*	dwihno shivers ... with anti --- cipation!
<dwihno>	Name that movie, 500 points
<Bagder2>	btw dwihno, you were too slow, I fixed my bmp viewer ;-)
<dwihno>	Bagder2: Hey, I got a work(tm)
<dwihno>	www.jupither.net/dw/
<Bagder2>	hehe
<Bagder2>	work? wazzat? ;-)
<dwihno>	Check the page and tell me what you think
<dwihno>	It's for an application I did
<Bagder2>	javascriptmania
<Bagder2>	well it *looks* good
<Bagder2>	but you break about every rule I'd follow
<dwihno>	:-)
<dwihno>	Which are... ?
<Zagor>	did anyone ever run the simulator with HAVE_PLAYER_KEYBOARD?
<Zagor>	it doesn't compile
<Bagder2>	javascript, use full browser, never use your own scroll, no movements
<Zagor>	*KEYPAD, even
<Bagder2>	Zagor: no, it built with player lcd but recorder keypad
<dwihno>	Bagder2: Yeah, I know, I agree! But this time, I had to do it this way! :)
<Zagor>	Bagder2: we need to be able to run player keypad too, to test the application
<Bagder2>	Zagor: you're right of course
<Bagder2>	I gotta run
<Bagder2>	see ya
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<dwihno>	what's the resolution of the recorder LCD?
<Zagor>	112x64
<dwihno>	okay
<dwihno>	:-)
<dwihno>	Me and my workmate are talking about purchasing
<dwihno>	Chasing information, trying to press the prices etc.
<Linus>	good!
<dwihno>	Yeah :)
<dwihno>	And installing rockbox to enhance functionality :)
<dwihno>	Are you writing a mp3 decoder yourself or are you utilizing the onboard-chip?
<Zagor>	the chip
<dwihno>	ah.
<dwihno>	I guess it takes less time.
<Zagor>	the processor isn't fast enough to handle mp3 decoding
<dwihno>	Could guess that.
<dwihno>	Oj. Swedish word-by-word translation ;)
<dwihno>	How big is your firmware compared to the original?
<Zagor>	it's smaller so far
<dwihno>	How big difference?
<Zagor>	but then we have hardly no application code yet
<dwihno>	true, true
<dwihno>	Okay, guess the movie, 400 points level: "In just seven days, I can make you a man!"
<Zagor>	currently the mod is 18k, while the archos mod is ~60k
<Zagor>	but we have to pad it to 50k anyway, otherwise the archos refuses to load it. so it's not much of an issue
<dwihno>	Fishy
<Zagor>	nah, it's probably just a sanity check
<Zagor>	to avoid loading bogus archos.mod files and crashing
<Zagor>	on the other hand, there's a CRC check as well so it shouldn't be necessary... oh well 20k disk space is no problem
<dwihno>	not really :)
<dwihno>	How far away is the first testing of the mod?
<Zagor>	days
<dwihno>	Exciting! :)
<Zagor>	yup :)
<Linus>	Bass and treble works now!
<Zagor>	coool!
<dwihno>	Guess the movie, 300 points: "Oh Janet! Oh Brad! Oh Janet! Oh Brad! Err... You're not Brad! Hahaha, you wish!"
<dwihno>	Linus: you own!
<Linus>	Single white female?
<Linus>	No
<dwihno>	Linus: I AM NOT WORTHY!!!
<dwihno>	Well, at least not before I got an Archos in my hand ;)
<dwihno>	Linus: what was the issue about VBR's?
<Zagor>	i've gotta go. see you guys!
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<Linus>	dwihno: what issue?
<dwihno>	I thought you wrote something about VBR's having a fishy sound
<Linus>	Did I?
<dwihno>	Hm
<dwihno>	<-- might be wrong
<Linus>	That must have been someone else
<dwihno>	might have been
<dwihno>	I congratulate you on the work on getting the decoding to work
<dwihno>	I congratulate all of you on this project
<dwihno>	Something neat would be, if Archos realized your firmware will get smarter than theirs, and they paid you for the development
<Linus>	Hehe. I'm not sure I would want that
<dwihno>	How come?
<dwihno>	If they allowed you to keep the product GPL?
<dwihno>	Being paid for doing fun stuff is like being paid for partying :)
<Linus>	I get paid for fun stuff almost daily
<Linus>	:-)
<Linus>	Buyt yes, if they agreed to GLP the code, why not?
<Linus>	GPL
<dwihno>	:)
<dwihno>	What do you do for a living?
<dwihno>	pimping? :)
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<Linus>	Hehe. Programming.
<dwihno>	jb1081: print "LiNuS rUlEz!"
<dwihno>	20: goto 10
<dwihno>	?
<dwihno>	 :)
<dwihno>	oops
<dwihno>	stupid nick completion
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