**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jun  1 00:01:10 2002

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---	Topic for #rockbox is web site might remain dead until saturday! :-(
---	Topic for #rockbox set by Bagder at Thu May 30 11:07:24
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<edx>	morning.
<Tumm>	morning
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---	Zagor has changed the topic to: Does your box rock? http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
<Zagor>	hey all
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*	adam thought of something evil
<adam>	a perl script to automatically renew my library books via telnet :p
<webmind>	evil yes
<adam>	Machinae Supremacy - The Great Gianna Sisters
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<Zagor>	hey guys. time for 1.0 release.
<webmind>	neat :)
<webmind>	when ?
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<Zagor>	soon. just fixing the web page
<webmind>	ok.. btw.. what are the functions/features of v1.0 ?
<Zagor>	hang on..
<dwihno>	Hej hej
<Zagor>	hi dwihno. 1.0 coming out in a few minutes.
<Zagor>	http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/rockbox-1.0-notes.txt
<dwihno>	Cool!
<dwihno>	:D
<dwihno>	Beware of Rockbox - It will rock your box! :D
<Zagor>	http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/download.html
<dwihno>	You are forgetting something - I have a recorder ;)
<Zagor>	ah, i'll add a comment about that
<dwihno>	I want to be mentioned too! :)
<Zagor>	hehe
<dwihno>	Please? :)
<webmind>	it seems to be becomming something :)
<dwihno>	I saw a 1.27D version of the archos firmware being released
*	dwihno is off to check what's new/fixed
<Zagor>	dwihno: any info about what changes?
<dwihno>	Added all Remote Functions via Remote Control Unit 
<dwihno>	That's what's new in the D revision
<Zagor>	ok
<dwihno>	I got some new Sennheiser headphones today
<dwihno>	My old Philips died on me last night. May they rest in peace.
<webmind>	btw.. any chance there will sometime be a txt file reader in rockbox ?
<dwihno>	Sometime, probably
<webmind>	ok
<Zagor>	yeah, that's a simple thing
<Zagor>	PsycoXul was working on it yesterday, but got snagged on some bug
<dwihno>	Does the ID3 stuff parse ID3V2 tags?
<Zagor>	i think so
<dwihno>	mkay
<Zagor>	that's bagder's code
<dwihno>	bagder the badger :)
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---	Zagor has changed the topic to: Version 1.0 released!
<edx|away>	hi!
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<edx>	release 1.0 - that is cool :)
<edx>	for the recorder as well?
<Zagor>	no, just player
<Zagor>	we haven't got the recorder ata driver working yet
<edx>	ah.. ok ;)
<edx>	hmm
<edx>	too sad i cant help there :(
<edx>	lol... did you get that Search Engine mail...
<Zagor>	i get a looot of spam...
<edx>	Hi
<edx>	I visited http://bjorn.haxx.se, and noticed that you're not listed on some search engines! I think we can offer you a service which can help you increase traffic and the number of visitors to your website.
<edx>	 
<edx>	bla.
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<Zagor>	you got that too?
<edx>	yup.
<Zagor>	hah
<edx>	what is wrong with the ata driver?
<edx>	a protocol related thing.. ?
<Zagor>	no, more likely the hardware interface is a little different from the players
<edx>	hmm
<edx>	the webserver is down?
<Zagor>	no, it's up again
<edx>	hmm i cant see it..
<Zagor>	odd
<edx>	not even haxx.se
<edx>	cant ping it either
<edx>	i gotta go eating :)
<edx>	later..
<Zagor>	bye
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<edx>	anyone here with an archos player?
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<Tumm>	yesbox
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<edx>	good night.
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<webmind>	bit onstable?
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<Zagor>	hey guys
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<huz>	hi all, glade to see the first release it there, i test it now ! 
<huz>	congratulations
<huz>	(where is my archos ? ;)
<Zagor>	thanks!
---	huz is now known as huz|test
<huz|test>	befor i copy your archos.mod, i must ark you somthing : 
<huz|test>	i'll already try to make : 'mv /mnt/archos/archos.mod ~/' and my computer freezed (sorry for my english ;)
<huz|test>	do you know why ? 
<Zagor>	did it really freeze? it can take several minutes to copy the first file to/from the archos, due to it having to read the disk's FAT
<huz|test>	qok, i musted be impatient .. i try .. hoping i'll stay alive
<huz|test>	oh oh .. i've lot of 'Jun  2 19:08:23 debian kernel: SCSI disk error : host 1 channel 0 id 0 lun 0 return code = 70000
<huz|test>	Jun  2 19:08:23 debian kernel:  I/O error: dev 08:01, sector 33358
<huz|test>	in my /var/log/messages
<Zagor>	ouch, that doesn't look good
<Zagor>	which usb driver are you using?
<huz|test>	euhh .. UHCI i think, i verify
<Zagor>	uchi.o or usb-uhci.o ?
<Zagor>	you should not be using uhci.o
<huz|test>	ohci sorry
<Zagor>	ok
<Zagor>	what chipset are you using?
<Zagor>	have you got usb working for any other devices?
<huz|test>	yes my usb works for my Speedtouch ADSL modem
<Zagor>	ok
<huz|test>	but normally it works well
<huz|test>	:)
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<huz|fixarchos>	ok, another solution : i'll do that atfter dinner with Windows
<huz|fixarchos>	bye
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<Zagor>	edx: are you here?
<Zagor>	can anyone build win32 simulators for me to put on the web page?
<edx>	zagor.. yes i am
<edx>	i can.
<Zagor>	good. download the 1.0 release and build that. one player sim and one recorder
<edx>	the new design of the page is cool btw ;)
<Zagor>	yeah. it's ironi's design
<edx>	shall i take the latest simulator code with the 1.0 app code or shall i also take 1.0 simulator code?
<Zagor>	the 1.0 release contains everything, so use that
<edx>	there's the uisw32.rc file missing in the 1.0 archive.
<Zagor>	uh, bad.
<edx>	it should be in cvs though
<Zagor>	yes
<edx>	.. and button.c is not yet player compatible..
<edx>	(shall i take the new one for compilation?)
<Zagor>	it isn't?
<Zagor>	is the simulator player compatible as a whole?
<Zagor>	if 1.0 only supports recorder, only build recorder
<edx>	it only supports the recorder...
<Zagor>	ok, no problem. just build that then.
<edx>	it is player compatible now (i only miss a player ui.. hehe other wise the simulator looks like a recorder even for the player)
<edx>	can i send the file via irc?
<Zagor>	sure
<edx>	do you get the request?
<Zagor>	yes, but not the file
<edx>	huh?
<Zagor>	mail it to me instead
<Zagor>	maybe it's my firewall
<edx>	yup
<edx>	(or my server?)
<edx>	do you have a front picture of a player?
<Zagor>	sure, on the devcon page
<edx>	ok.. got it..
<edx>	ill have a player design for the simulator in the next few days then ;)
<Zagor>	nice
<edx>	where exactly fails the ata driver for the recorder?
<Zagor>	when we try to send a command to it
<edx>	so it wont even initialize.. ?
<Zagor>	no
<edx>	hmm
<edx>	that is bad.
<Zagor>	we are going to add a serial port to our recorders this week and start experimenting
<edx>	hehe
<edx>	did you receive the mail yet?
<Zagor>	yes, got it
<edx>	ok
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<huz>	okback under win
<Zagor>	ok
<huz>	nice !:)
<huz>	first time i see the red led :)
<Zagor>	hehe, yes archos never uses it for some reason
<huz>	the sound now .. .
<Zagor>	problems?
<huz>	no, it works perfectly
<Zagor>	good
<huz>	do you want i make something ? a test  or wathever ..
<Zagor>	do you have a new or old player?
<Zagor>	that is, did you download the player-old or player version?
<huz>	i've an archos JB600 , but how can i know if i have 'an old' or 'a new' player
<huz>	the player version 
<huz>	not the old
<Zagor>	ok
<Zagor>	the ROM firmware version decides
<huz>	great we can exit the dir and the sound continue to play ! it'sgreat
<Zagor>	so how did you like the big rockbox logo on boot?
<huz>	euh .. there is a blank line in the midle of Rockbox
<Zagor>	yeah, but I think it's cool anyway :)
<huz>	vers 5.03 <- my firmware
<Zagor>	yeah, that's a new player
<huz>	yes logo is great, but isn't it possible to have a music's note (une note de musique ?) 
<huz>	:)
<huz>	(ok ok .. i'll wait :)
<Zagor>	yeah it is
<Zagor>	next version :)
<huz>	i return under linux, i have a strange impression to be observed when i work w/ windows
<huz>	:)
<webmind>	hmm
*	webmind has 5.08
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<webmind>	quite odd
<Zagor>	what?
<webmind>	firmware 5.08
<webmind>	since newest online 5.07a
<Zagor>	that's not unusual. they don't release the mod files very quickly
<webmind>	ah ok
<Zagor>	every new release is first released in ROM and then (weeks later) as mod files
<webmind>	hm k
<Zagor>	I don't know why, but that's what they do
<webmind>	hm k
<webmind>	hope rockbox will develop soon.. archos firmware getting anoying as hell
<Zagor>	i think we will go far this summer. I will work on it almost full-time!
<webmind>	cewl
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<huz>	re
<Zagor>	hi. back in linux?
<huz>	yes :) fluxbox is nicer than windows :)
<Zagor>	indeed
<huz>	a friend of mine on #debian-france has a recorder, i think he is a bit jalous ;P
<Zagor>	hehe
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<huz|away>	fabix ? 
<Zagor>	huh?
<huz|away>	sorry, i begin to use irssi, and i make some errors :)
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<huz>	there is a problem on the web page
<Zagor>	what?
<huz>	http://rockbox.sourceforge.net/rockbox/ <- if you click 2002-06-01: Version 1.0 is released! Download it here.  <- there
<huz>	you got a permission denied
<huz>	(is it understandable?;)
<Zagor>	fixing
<Zagor>	fixed
<huz>	yes it is, your efficient ;)
<huz>	(is it the good word ?)
<Zagor>	yep
<Zagor>	thanks :)
<huz>	is it normal that when we play files we can't  have access to the volume ? 
<huz>	or to the menu in general
<huz>	(sorry ... ;)
<Zagor>	you can, but right now you have to exit id3 mode first
<huz>	exact ! ok, i keep your mod
<huz>	it's really a great work, i know the project for some times now, and i really admire the work. 
<Zagor>	thanks!
<edx>	gotta go...
<edx>	cya
<Zagor>	bye
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<Zagor>	welcome :)
<adam>	hey
*	adam finished reading Guns of the South
<adam>	:p
<adam>	grr. evil Linux usb. *reboots*
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<adam>	curses
<adam>	one thing I miss in good ol RB v1 is the on button + arrow volume change
<Zagor>	yeah
<adam>	but hey
<Zagor>	we don't have multiple-key support yet, that's why it was left out
<adam>	time will fix that
<Zagor>	yup
<Zagor>	or I will, at least :)
<adam>	heh
<adam>	I'll go write an Everquest bot :p
<adam>	well, that'd be sick, and wrong
<Zagor>	:)
<adam>	Machinae Supremacy - March of the (Undead part II)
<Zagor>	yeah, they rock!
<adam>	... Adjust my evil parentheses
<adam>	I've never seen the error led used in the standard archos firmware
<Zagor>	me neither
<Zagor>	i've never thought of it as an error led, though. i always felt it was an activity led
<adam>	he
<adam>	I noticed that in the rb firmware
<Zagor>	yeah
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<elinenbe>	'ello there
<Zagor>	hi
<elinenbe>	late night?
<Zagor>	yeah, going to bed soon
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<elinenbe>	congradulations on the awesome work on the project
<Zagor>	thanks
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<mat>	hey
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<PiotR>	hi
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<Tigren>	hey
<Tigren>	any chance that 1.0 could screw up my jukebox?
<Tigren>	ie: erase data, screw up hard drive, etc?
<Tigren>	anyone at all?
<Tigren>	has 1.0 given you trouble?
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<miah>	hey, great to see you guys released a 1.0
<miah>	im testing it now
<miah>	seems to work fine with all my vbr stuff..
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<edx>	good morning.
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<green>	ok - wow.  this is a cool project.
<green>	are any of the hackers online?
<webmind>	natm
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<huz>	hello
<huz>	is that normal the rockbox.sf.net returns a forbidden access to index.html ? 
<webmind>	try /rockbox/ ?
<huz>	it works
<webmind>	ok
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<Bagder>	moo
<webmind>	oi
<Lion>	badger: What's the optimum malloc() size?
<Bagder>	you mean the biggest possible?
<Bagder>	there's currently 128kb available for malloc()
<Lion>	No, the standard block that doesn't fragment
<Bagder>	ah
<Bagder>	well
<Bagder>	its not that easy to say just one size, but if there's any size that matches that description it is 4064 bytes ;-)
<Lion>	k
<Bagder>	what do you want this for?
---	huz is now known as huz|sdl
<Lion>	I came up with a method to handle playlists that's both memory efficient and doesn't need a ton of disk spins
<Bagder>	that is better than keeping the file name indices in memory?
<Lion>	Yeah
<Bagder>	so tell me! ;-)
<Lion>	Lemme write up some stuff for it
<Bagder>	sounds like a good idea ;-)
<webmind>	hmm :)
<Lion>	Hmm, my alg has a added benifit of doing a distance reshuffle
<Bagder>	what is a "distance" reshuffle?
*	Bagder fixes the daily build
<Lion>	Oh, wait, no it can't .. damn, I was thinking backwards.
<Lion>	distance reshuffle maximizes the distance between currently ordered entries
<Bagder>	ah
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<Lion>	THOUGH
<Lion>	It might be easy to do a reshuffle through block swaps as well as cell exchanges
<Bagder>	just remember that we need deterministic shuffle
<Lion>	Haha, yeah, that's the basis
<Bagder>	recorder build is broken again :-(
<dwihno>	Doesn't really matter since the code won't run on the target platform (yet) ;)
<Bagder>	it matters anyway
<dwihno>	yeah
<dwihno>	I'm just joking :)
<dwihno>	I guess monday morning isn't such a great time for jokes ;)
<Bagder>	heheh
*	Bagder hasnt
<Bagder>	eaten his breakfast sandwich yet
<Bagder>	daily-build for recorder is working again
<Lion>	THis is more designed for big playlists than small.
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<Lion>	But with a device of 6,10,20 gig, large lists are the nrom.
<Lion>	er, norm
<Bagder>	yeah
<huz|sdl>	sorry, i'm just an user but my playlist contains about 20 songs (one album) 
<Lion>	Heh, then you should have bought a different device.  :)
<Bagder>	we should deal nicely with small playlists too of course
<Lion>	They onyl thing that gets weird is shuffling small lists.
<Bagder>	why?
<Lion>	When I get done with the doc, you'll know why.
<Bagder>	hehe
<Bagder>	ok
<dwihno>	The built-in shuffle function in the original firmware is really bad :)
<Lion>	AH HAH
<Lion>	Never mind, I found a non-conditional way to shuffle even small lists
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*	adam peeks in
<adam>	perl overdose
<huz|sdl>	why in id3.c fonction stripspaces() you don't realloc the buffer ? is it a speed problem ? (i warn i'm not a quite brillant programmer)
<Bagder>	id3 doesn't use malloc() at all
<adam>	Heh, 2:36 AM
<Bagder>	we rather avoid malloc() and associated functions if possible
<dwihno>	is the malloc stuff slow?
<huz|sdl>	ok it is thus a speed limitation ? 
<Bagder>	everything is relative
<huz|sdl>	:)
<Bagder>	actually
<Bagder>	using malloc() in this kind of system is really a sensitive matter
<Bagder>	so if we know what kind of memory sizes to use and we know it'll be used fairly often, it is better to use static buffers
<Bagder>	I don't think this malloc() is slowe than other malloc()s, in fact I believe it is faster than most (best-fit) implementations
<Bagder>	it might have a slightly higher amount of internal fragementation though
<huz|sdl>	ok thanks
<Bagder>	also, I made the id3.c work before we even had a malloc() working ;-)
<dwihno>	malloc is for chickens
<dwihno>	real men use static buffers :)
<Bagder>	>500 unread mail this morning
<dwihno>	eww
<Bagder>	quite some load
<dwihno>	that's what happens when you subscribe to pr0n bulletins ;)
<Bagder>	couldn't read mail when the site was down so this is like four days feed
<dwihno>	Eww
<dwihno>	That much mail in 4 days?
<Bagder>	yah
<Bagder>	me a mail type of guy
<dwihno>	That's perverted :)
<Bagder>	I'm involved in a fair amount of open source projects
<dwihno>	That's what I get in three years :)
<dwihno>	What mail client do you use?
<dwihno>	I bet you have 3000 filtering rules
<Bagder>	I subscribe to at least 4-5 cvs commit mailing lists
<Bagder>	I have 13 inboxes
<Bagder>	I get 150-170 mails daily
<dwihno>	What client?
<dwihno>	Pine?
<Bagder>	pine
<dwihno>	Mkay
<dwihno>	I think mutt is cute
<Lion>	Pine rocks
<Lion>	Pine+procmail
<Bagder>	I've tried mutt but never found reasons enough to switch from pine
<huz|sdl>	ok i goto go
<Bagder>	without procmail, life gets impossible ;-)
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*	dwihno don't know what procmail is good for
<Bagder>	filtering
<Lion>	Yeah, and spamassassin also works miracles.  :)
<dwihno>	mkay
<Bagder>	it is *THE* mail filtering system
<dwihno>	spamassassin sounds good :)
<dwihno>	KILL DA SPAM! :D
<dwihno>	I usually have filters matching *viagra* *debt consolidation* etc. ;)
*	Bagder runs for more coffee
*	dwihno got his 5dl cup of tea all filled up
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<Linus>	boo!
*	dwihno gets scared and jumps up in a pinetree
<Linus>	:-)
<Bagder>	hey Linus
<Bagder>	good to not have Björn around? ;-P
<Linus>	nice and quiet
<green>	there was talk recently of removing sh-1 support from gcc.
<green>	I think a number of people complained, but I'm not sure what the final decision was.
<dwihno>	Hmm...
<dwihno>	Why would they remove it?
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<Linus>	dwihno: maybe because it isn't a very popular CPU?
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<Lion>	Ok, you want to read this thing?
<Bagder>	machine died
<dwihno>	Linus: But why would they dump the support for an architecture they already have code for?
<Lion>	dwihno: THey have to maintain it.
<Linus>	maybe because they have changed their internal scheduler?
<dwihno>	Hm
<dwihno>	Linus: True, ture
<Lion>	http://www.leonine.com/~lion/temp/playlist.txt
<dwihno>	Lion Templin reminds me of Simon Templar
<Lion>	Heh.
<green>	no - because apparently sh-1 support has been broken since September 2001.
<green>	And nobody has bothered to fix it.
<dwihno>	Lion - the saint
*	dwihno listens to the saint theme
<Linus>	green: not exactly broken, but not entirely functional...
<green>	I'm just reading up on it.  I don't think their complaint impacts this project.
<green>	GCC's default crt0 uses braf in some assembly, but that instruction isn't available on sh-1.
<green>	rockbox doesn't use gcc's crt0, right?
<Linus>	no, we have our own
<dwihno>	Evil shiznat 1x2.
<green>	How much ram on these devices?
<Bagder>	2MB
<Bagder>	and we need as much as possible for mp3 buffering
<adam>	heh
<dwihno>	The memory consumption should be kept to a minumum allowing buff... yeah, exactly what Bagder says....
<Lion>	Bagder: You read that URL?
<Bagder>	no, I'll do that
<adam>	heh, does the buffer automatically read into the next file, like lets say you had a playlist, or does it start out anew with each opened file?
<Bagder>	it gets fed with the next file
<adam>	hmm
<Bagder>	or files if they are small
<adam>	It'd be an amusingly sadistic hardware hack to have a 64mb Buffer :p
<adam>	impossible, but amusing in any regards
<Bagder>	Lion: small first detail: write() will be supported, it just isn't right now
<Lion>	Bagder: THat's addressed at the bottom
<Bagder>	ok
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<Bagder>	hey ironi
<adam>	hey
<ironi>	hello bagder
<ironi>	adam
<ironi>	*yawn*
*	adam fumbles with tcp tunneling
<ironi>	i just wanted to see whats going on
<adam>	the things I do to play stupid LAN games :P
<dwihno>	ironi! :D You and I talked about Dell laptops a couple of days ago, yes?
<ironi>	dwihno: true, true
<adam>	all because these guys don't feel like crapping out the client/server code any earlier than they feel would be 'perfect'
<dwihno>	ironi: I've decided to get one :)
<ironi>	cool
<dwihno>	ironi: I would like to thank you for the tip :)
<ironi>	damnit damnit they lost
<ironi>	aaaargh
<ironi>	im so disappointed
<dwihno>	which what who?
<ironi>	(watching the world cup)
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<Bagder>	morning Zagor
<Zagor>	yay, what a crowd!
*	dwihno sighs with relief... Finally someone with some sanity in their pockets who realize the importance of the soccer championships ;)
<ironi>	croatia lost against mexico
<ironi>	scandalous
<Bagder>	Zagor: of course the recorder build was broken ,-)
<Zagor>	hehe
<ironi>	world cup is the only sporting event i care about
<Zagor>	the changelog doesn't indicate your checking last night
<ironi>	well except the summer olympics
<Zagor>	checkin, even
<Bagder>	nah
<Bagder>	I ran it again this morning
<Bagder>	I had to fix the script
<Bagder>	since the recorder output has changed namae
<Bagder>	name
<Bagder>	ajz
<Zagor>	right
<ironi>	any changes since the first buid?
<ironi>	(thinkig if its any use to put int he new one
<Zagor>	nothing useful over 1.0
<ironi>	k
<ironi>	well im going to get osme sleep
<ironi>	this wa smy last night-shift, returning to normal mode again
<ironi>	finally
<ironi>	and this week i have pretty much nothing to do whatsoever
<Zagor>	i'll have my hands full. resting, sleeping, eating... ;)
<ironi>	:-P
<ironi>	Zagor: no work this week?
<Zagor>	nope
<ironi>	what does /dns cvitan.com give you?
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<ironi>	what ip
<Zagor>	194.236.60.242
<ironi>	ok
<ironi>	that is what it should be
<ironi>	i still get the old one
<Zagor>	ah
<ironi>	well it will probably go trough during the day
<green>	hmmm.. the gcc list says that sh-elf-as silently assembles what is supposed to be sh-1 code as sh-2 .. possibly introducing bad instructions.
<green>	has this been a problem on this project?
<ironi>	i am putting some effort into creating my poersonal homepage this week
<ironi>	one of those never ending projects
<ironi>	=)
<dwihno>	URL?
*	Bagder thinks Linus and Zagor might be able to answer to the assembler questions
<ironi>	none of interest yet =)
<Linus>	green: I haven't seen it yet...
<Bagder>	Zagor: how many mp3s do you have on your archos?
<Bagder>	you're the worst case I know ;-)
*	Bagder wonders what a static buffer for the playlist would take
<webmind>	few k ?
<Zagor>	Bagder: about 3500-4000 files
<webmind>	files ?
<Zagor>	mp3 files, on my archos
<Zagor>	green: no, we haven't been bitten by that
<webmind>	owh.. i though on mem
<webmind>	+t
<Bagder>	so 10000 files would go pretty far and only take 40000 bytes
<Zagor>	sounds good
<dwihno>	yeah, sounds pretty good
<webmind>	40k ?
<Bagder>	almost
<Lion>	little more, but close
<Lion>	I'm going to send my doc to the list.
<Zagor>	Bagder: actually it's 5500+ files
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<Linus>	welcome!
<Bagder>	Zagor: well, 10000 is still sufficient ;-)
<webmind>	hi Lil_Missie 
<Zagor>	yeah
<Lil_Missie>	hi webbie (:
<Bagder>	Zagor: you read Lion's suggestion?
<Lil_Missie>	stealing my words are you zagor?
<Zagor>	Bagder: which was that?
<Bagder>	Zagor: http://www.leonine.com/~lion/temp/playlist.txt
<Zagor>	Lil_Missie: i am?
<Lil_Missie>	10:36 < Zagor> sounds good
<Zagor>	haha
<Lil_Missie>	 10:36 <@Witchy> sounds good (:
<Lil_Missie>	yes you were
<Zagor>	Bagder: reading now
<Bagder>	Zagor: you gonna keep this setup for the rockbox CVS commit mails?
<green>	is the firmware size limit really 200k?  any idea why not more?
<Bagder>	green: probably only the intial loaded file
<Bagder>	green: once we have a rolo we can load whatever size we want
<green>	rolo?
<Bagder>	Rockbox Loader
<Bagder>	like lilo
<Zagor>	Bagder: you mean cvs@haxx?
<Bagder>	Zagor: yes
<Zagor>	no, that was just temporary
<dwihno>	rolo! :D
<Bagder>	Zagor: I just wanna know for my procmail filtering
<dwihno>	ROLO WILL OWN! :D
<Zagor>	Bagder: ah
<green>	I'm confused then.  does rolo exist?
<Zagor>	green: no
<green>	can it exist?
<Zagor>	yes, it's something we plan to write
<Bagder>	green: no, but it would be cool to have a tiny little app loaded first, that can offer the user to load any of set of images
<green>	ok
<green>	I hack on gcj (the gnu java compiler), and I was looking for a fun embedded target to use for J2ME tests.  I might need more that 200k though.
<Bagder>	the 200k limit is only for the file the firmware loads
<Lion>	Haha, java on the archos would be great.
<webmind>	no
<Bagder>	I mean the original ROMed firmware
<Zagor>	i have to run som errands. see you later guys!
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<Lion>	So, about that file?
<Lion>	Any comments?
<green>	I've just created binutil/gcc patches to create an sh-rockbox target.
<green>	I need this to configure the java runtime properly.
<webmind>	btw is the rom overwriteable ?
<green>	I don't know if this would be useful to anybody though.
<Bagder>	webmind: some revisions of the hardware do offer this capability, but don't expect us to attempt that ;-)
<green>	Is there a plan to use more threads in the firmware?
<webmind>	heh
<green>	I think I only see 1 being created.
<Bagder>	green: if we need to
<green>	The gcc hackers are adding compiler support for thread local storage.
<Bagder>	cool
<green>	An sh-rockbox configuration would be necessary in order for it to work on this project.
<green>	Maybe that's a good argument to check this in.
<Bagder>	I'm not sure we need any particular thread local storage at this point :-)
<Bagder>	we might need that in the future though of course
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*	Bagder runs on a meeeting
*	Bagder is away: I'm busy
*	Bagder is back (gone 00:14:41)
<Lion>	woo
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<HEMIL>	PERO QUE COÑO ES ESTO??
<webmind>	no
<dwihno>	hamburgesa con keso, por favor
<Bagder>	si si
<HEMIL>	pero vamos a ver?
<HEMIL>	donde coño eestoy?
<webmind>	er ?
<HEMIL>	esto no es el puto irc??
<HEMIL>	hispano?
<Bagder>	estas aqui ;-)
<dwihno>	vamos ala discoteca
<HEMIL>	de donde han salido esto s grupos tan raros??
<HEMIL>	tanto linux y tantas pollas en vinagre?
<HEMIL>	que garito es esto?
<Bagder>	hablamos ingles aqui
<webmind>	uhm
<webmind>	dudes
<webmind>	english ?
<Bagder>	right
<Bagder>	that's what i said ;-) 
<HEMIL>	no!
<webmind>	heh
<webmind>	yes
<HEMIL>	this is a big shit!
<Bagder>	haha
<webmind>	bi
<green>	better
<webmind>	er
<webmind>	no
<HEMIL>	home english solutions
<Bagder>	no, it isn't
<HEMIL>	yes of course
<HEMIL>	HEMIL> ME CAGO EN DIOS
<HEMIL>	<Vladimirr> Ja, helt enig
<HEMIL>	<HEMIL> JA?
<HEMIL>	<HEMIL> tu puta madre!
<HEMIL>	esto es ....
<webmind>	so?
<HEMIL>	AHORA LO ENTIENDO
<HEMIL>	ESTO ES UN CHAT
<webmind>	could u plz not shout ?
<HEMIL>	DE LINUX
<Bagder>	now speak enligh please
<HEMIL>	de gente subbersiva
---	ChanServ gives channel operator status to Bagder
<HEMIL>	que ha creado un servidor
<webmind>	the fact that u dont have aol in .se doesnt mean u have to compansate :)
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<HEMIL>	joder
<HEMIL>	ahora lo entiendo
<webmind>	what ?
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<webmind>	neat
<webmind>	weirdo
<Bagder>	silly person
<Bagder>	first ban ever in this channel ;-)
<webmind>	ok..
<webmind>	always has to be a first
<webmind>	what did he want btw ?
<Linus>	He mentioned someting about us creating a channel about something that isn't a linux topic
<webmind>	weird
<Bagder>	and he said he understood several times ;-)
<webmind>	ok
<Bagder>	I don't understand what he understood though ;-)
<Bagder>	hehe
<webmind>	heh
<webmind>	me neither..
<webmind>	my spanish is even worse then my german :)
<webmind>	witch makes it better then my icelandic
<webmind>	which
<Linus>	...or did he ask us if we knew about a channel that talks abour Linux...?
<Linus>	whatever
<webmind>	hehe 
<webmind>	lol
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<green>	is it possible to use the USB port while music is playing?
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<webmind>	dunno
<Linus>	oops
<Bagder>	green: I think so, we just can't use the disk
<webmind>	but it would require 2 object using the hd i think
<Bagder>	Linus: <green> is it possible to use the USB port while music is playing?
<webmind>	hmm
<Linus>	well, not really
<Linus>	it all depends on how the ISD200 behaves
<webmind>	isnt the usb adapter not just only connected to the hd controller ?
<Linus>	The USB adapter is connected to the ATA interface
<Linus>	as is the CPU
<webmind>	yes
<Linus>	and a couple of buffers isolate the CPU/ISD200 from the ATA interface
<webmind>	so u would have to communicate with usb through the ATA interface ?
<Linus>	these buffers are controlled with port pins from the CPU
<Linus>	You mean CPU communicating with the PC via USB?
<webmind>	directly to the usb iface ?
<Linus>	The ISD200 only talks ATA with the disk
<webmind>	hm k
<Linus>	and the CPU can talk ATA if it disables the ISD200
<Linus>	I gotta go now! CU!
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<webmind>	hm k
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<huz>	back ::)
<Bagder>	hi
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<Bagder>	so there was a posting to that yahoo group for archos?
<Bagder>	about the 1.0 release I mean
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<Bagder>	rehi
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<Bagder>	multiple Björns!
<Tumm>	you should drop a line on www.funmp3players.com
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<Zagor>	i have
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<Zagor>	xchat crashed :(
<Zagor>	bagder, are you working on the playlist code?
<Bagder>	not yet
<Zagor>	ok
<Bagder>	I'll probably not do anything major until tomorrow evening
<Zagor>	ok
*	Bagder made the most blatant newbit error in CVS
<Bagder>	newbie
<Zagor>	hehe
<Bagder>	I didn't set a tag right after I made a branch
*	Bagder has to merge 150 files with single invoke cvs commands
<Bagder>	great fun
<Bagder>	damn it
<Bagder>	I'll write a script anyway
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<edx>	hi
<Bagder>	g'day edx
<Zagor>	hi
*	edx wants ata working :P
*	Bagder agrees
<Zagor>	yeah, we all do
<edx>	right now.. are you using the same code for player / recorder?
<Bagder>	yes
<edx>	that's the ata.c file?
<Bagder>	yes
<Bagder>	if you run the archos.ajz file on target, I belive it stops on ata: -5 at this point
<edx>	heh.. i dont have a clue of this hardware business :).. what function is it in?
<edx>	    if (ata_spindown(1))
<edx>	        return -5;
<edx>	there?
<Bagder>	exactly
<edx>	do you know where inside the spindown function it returns? (or where it sets ret = -1)?
<Zagor>	it times out on response from the command. it does that on any command you send
<edx>	        if (time > 255)
<edx>	there?
<edx>	hm no.. sorry that cant even be.. lol
<edx>	then that's the first waitforrdy call...
<edx>	hmmm..
<edx>	why does the freeze_lock thing not return -1?
<edx>	it uses the command thing as well.
<edx>	anybody with me?  :)
<Zagor>	it does
<Bagder>	I'm not ;-)
<edx>	hmm it does return -1?
<Zagor>	oh, that
<edx>	that seems to work then.. right?
<Zagor>	no, the recorder simply returns -4. -5 was for a test where we had uncommented freeze_lock()
<edx>	ahh ok
<edx>	(bagder just said it was -5.. heh)
<Zagor>	don't listen to him :)
<edx>	the waitforrdy fails.. right?
<edx>	the first or the second one?
<edx>	sorry for bothering you with questions ;)
<Zagor>	i don't remember. the second, i think
<Bagder>	gotta run, see ya
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<edx>	im away for a few mins as well now ;)
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<Zagor>	i'm off for today. bye guys!
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<alkorr>	hi !
<alkorr>	geee people are growing here !
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<ironi>	i'm here, but i'm still the same height and weight.
<ironi>	haven't grown a bit.
<edx>	huh?
<edx>	what's that stuff you smoke, ironi?
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<ironi>	=)
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<kop>	hi
<kop>	Congrads on 1.0
<kop>	Too bad it won't do ogg.
<kop>	It'd be nice if it'd do some sort of lossless compression too.
<kop>	bye
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<dwihno>	Hmm... Audio, lossless compression? How... *ponder*
<wettoad>	simple
<wettoad>	remove all the bytes that = 5
<wettoad>	then randomly add 5 when you play the music
<dwihno>	;)
<datazone>	well, i have a better idea
<datazone>	since all sound sounds the same at two points: zero volume, and infinite loud volume
<datazone>	you can then store an infinite amount of music in an extremly small space
<wettoad>	the you only need 32 bits
<wettoad>	word
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<carlf>	Hello all.
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<elinenbe>	on Slashdot.... nice.  The only thing is people do not understand the purpose of the project.
<wettoad>	what is the purpose
<elinenbe>	Everyone is being quite hard on the project.
<elinenbe>	hey, EDX
<edx>	hi
<edx>	whats about slashdot?
<elinenbe>	I was wondering if you could e-mail me a binary of the win32 simulator?
<elinenbe>	the project is on the front page of slashdot
<edx>	hmm i thoink bjorn even has a release compile on the site...
<edx>	WHAT?
<elinenbe>	yeah.  It is right there!
<elinenbe>	a release of the win32 simulator?
<edx>	http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/download.html
<edx>	down there somewhere...
<edx>	LOL
<edx>	pretty cool.. that slash dot thing
<dwihno>	hellö hellö
<elinenbe>	did you hear the ROLO idea?
<edx>	rhe rockbox loader..
<edx>	not exactly..
<elinenbe>	Rockbox Boot Loader... having a loader will allow firmwares >200k to be loaded
<edx>	ah ok
<edx>	hmm it has another advantage:
<edx>	the descrambling of the firmware takes time.. a loader could be descrambled and then load an unscrambled mod...
<edx>	that would save boot-up time
<dwihno>	hm
<dwihno>	never thought of that... smart
<edx>	hmm.. I just heard slashdot is popular. how popular is it?
<elinenbe>	it is quite popular.
<elinenbe>	actually very popular
<dwihno>	Yeah... :)
<dwihno>	slashdot is really fancy stuff
<elinenbe>	that is a great idea.  mention that to others: the descrambling of the firmware takes time.. a loader could be descrambled and then load an unscrambled mod...
<edx>	talked about it with bagder.. he mentioned rolo then.
<edx>	when has the post been put up on slashdot?
<edx>	(88 replies.. lol)
<edx>	lol some stupid stuff ppl write sometimes ... :)
<edx>	(and why dont we have a visitor counter... :P )
<edx>	... i gotta leave for school.. cu later.
<elinenbe>	later
<elinenbe>	have fun
<elinenbe>	there is an access log on the web page
<elinenbe>	ask bjorn about it or someone else...
<edx>	k :)
<edx>	later.
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<wiggles>	there is a mistake in the FAQ
<wiggles>	specifically a typo in Q18
<wiggles>	I quote
<wiggles>	<< Q18. What about supporting playing of wav files?
<wiggles>	A18. No Bill.  We have no intention of that.  Go buy your own project. >>
<wiggles>	this makes very little sense. wav files, though they originated with windows, are very well documented at the moment. it would make more sense if it said "wma files" or "asf files"
<wiggles>	also, wav files do not compete directly with mp3 files. wma files however do directly compete with mp3 files
<wiggles>	i'm done complaining. i'll shut up now
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*	adi|home thinks ppl don't understand sarcasm.
<adi|home>	"_
<adi|home>	:)
<dwihno>	hehe
<dwihno>	yeah
<dwihno>	everybody thinks everybody are so serious
<wettoad>	its cause there is no sarcasm font
<dwihno>	yup
<wettoad>	i think it should be left slated italics
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<Bagder>	 /. :-)
<Bagder>	http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/06/04/0018259
<adi|home>	i do think i did do a good job making that FAQ nice and sarcasm ladden if i do say so myself
<Bagder>	hehe, I agree
<adi|home>	hehe you see all the DMCA comments?
<Bagder>	yeah
<Bagder>	almost every second posting seems to mention that in one way or another
<adi|home>	i like this:
<adi|home>	ust tried the mod out, works great on my Studio 20, of course the UI has quite a bit till it's up to the current archos build, but it's good to see someone making progress. 
<adi|home>	             the cool thing about these players it you don't have to actually flash the rom, they boot off of the internal rom for a second and immediately look for a file in the root for updates, if
<adi|home>	             the file's not there they just continue to boot from hardware. 
<adi|home>	heheh
<adi|home>	and i also dig the fact that the FAQ is actually being useful :)
<adi|home>	way to go Bagder
<Bagder>	slashdot is likely to be a very good place to get attention
<adi|home>	yah think?
<adi|home>	you ever hear of slashdot-effect
<Bagder>	hehe yes
<adi|home>	i hope his server can handle it :)
<Bagder>	we'll see ;-)
<Bagder>	Björn has written some scripts to deal with too heavy loads
<Bagder>	it'll be interesting to see if they work ;-)
<adi|home>	lol
<adi|home>	Im watching a show on the WTC sept 9th ....
<adi|home>	i am _never_ going to forget those images...
*	adi|home sighs
<wettoad>	i actually saw tha anounce on fershmeat first
<wettoad>	i have never seen it there before
<Bagder>	it wasn't there before 1.0
<adi|home>	hey Bagder.. thats a mighty sexy headshot ;)
<Bagder>	hah ;-)
<adi|home>	i think we need a hit counter on the main site...
<adi|home>	im interested to see how we've done ;)
<Bagder>	I wanna know too!
<Bagder>	http://perso.wanadoo.fr/pascal.brisset/kernel3d/kernel3d.html
<Bagder>	we should have one of those for rockbox ;-)
<Lion>	So, Bagder, you never really commented on the rest of the doc I submitted ...
<Bagder>	you mean the "caching" and the saving parts?
<Lion>	That, and the assumed acceptance of the byte-offset method for storing list entries.
<Bagder>	the byte-offset method is already used in the playlist code we have ;-)
<Bagder>	and I like that approach
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<Bagder>	we will benefit from a cache system too, to avoid reading from the disk more than necessary
<Lion>	Well, hell, if I'm just repeating what's been said before, *shrug*
<Bagder>	hehe
<Bagder>	only partly
<Bagder>	the current code loads a playlist and creates a single index with all byte-positions for all file names
<Bagder>	and it offers a randomizer
<Bagder>	I don't think we need to store the cache on save though
<Lion>	I never talked about doing that.
<Bagder>	no
<Bagder>	saving needs to save the random seed to
<Bagder>	too
<Lion>	Not everyone shuffles.
<Bagder>	true, but for those who do
<globbe>	sorry if this is an obvious question, but will the firmware work with my jukebox recorder 20?
<Bagder>	globbe: it _will_, it just don't do it right now ;-)
<globbe>	haha :)
<globbe>	looking forward to that :)
<Bagder>	globbe: we do have a simulator running though
<Bagder>	yeah, I do too
<Bagder>	I only have a recorder myself ;-)
<globbe>	youve done a beautiful job :)
<Lion>	ok
<Lion>	mav
<globbe>	I'm just about to order the ACCESSORY KIT, to get the remote.. is it worth the money?
<globbe>	(yep that was a cut 'n paste)
<Bagder>	I dunno, I don't have one
<globbe>	oki
<globbe>	thanks anyway.. I'll keep an eye on the webpage for that jukebox 20 upgrade then.. Good luck!
<Bagder>	thanks
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<Hadaka>	whee, rockbox looks awesome
<Bagder>	;-)
<Bagder>	we think so too!
<Hadaka>	I've got a Recorder 20 - with usb 2.0 and all that - I suppose it's not working on that yet?
<Bagder>	no, not yet
<Bagder>	still some problemos on the ata driver there
<dwihno>	But it's progressing! :)
<dwihno>	Progress ! Yay!
<Hadaka>	well I can try some test versions whenever those would come around
<Bagder>	we'll announce them on the mailing list and the web site as soon as we have any
<Hadaka>	have to see if I would manage to squeeze some time from other project to code a bit on this
<Bagder>	we always appreciate more hands in the cookie jar ;-)
<Hadaka>	hm, you've implemented fat filesystem code yourself there?
<Bagder>	yes
<Hadaka>	hmmh, I wonder if it would be possible to have a small fat filesystem for bootstrapping the new firmware and then some other filesystem for the rest of the disk...
<Bagder>	yes it would
<Bagder>	at least some people have said so
<Hadaka>	I'm currently having some files as a big file containing ext3 that I'm mounting loopback
<dwihno>	Is there any limitation on the disk size btw?
<Bagder>	hm, it wouldn't surprise me if there is one
<dwihno>	I've read about upgrades to 40 gig
<Bagder>	isn't there some ~130GB limit/problem ?
<Bagder>	for standard ata/ide
<Bagder>	40GB is no problem
<adi|home>	anyone else been watching the World Cup?
*	Bagder hasn't
<adi|home>	you sinner
<adi|home>	anyone seen edx around?
<Bagder>	I'm probably the only one in Sweden ;-)
<adi|home>	wanted to let him know he did a great job on tetris
<adi|home>	lol@Bagder
<adi|home>	your boys played once already no?
<webmind_>	world cup? sth with bra's ?
<Bagder>	yes, against England
<Bagder>	yes, tetris was zoomed, wasn't it?
<webmind_>	?
*	Bagder just read the CVS commit mail
<adi|home>	yup.. it was.. 
<adi|home>	now I just wanna work on the level timings
<adi|home>	level 1 is a bit fast
<adi|home>	whats the matter webmind_
<Bagder>	well, we'll see how it compares to the actual target timings later on ;-)
<adi|home>	hehe
<webmind_>	zoomed ?
<adi|home>	oh.. tetris used to be VERY small
<adi|home>	the pieces were 1 pixel wide
<adi|home>	so tought to work with...
<adi|home>	edx fixed that by increasing their size (as well as the size of the game board)
<webmind_>	hm k
<webmind_>	so wide is your playing field btw?
<webmind_>	+how
<adi|home>	umm.. not sure.. ill tell ya in a sec
<adi|home>	#define TETRIS_TITLE_XLOC  43
<adi|home>	#define TETRIS_TITLE_YLOC  15
<adi|home>	i think thats it
<webmind_>	15 wide ?
<webmind_>	nice
<adi|home>	have you played with the simulator?
<webmind_>	nope
<webmind_>	not yet
<adi|home>	you on windows or linux?
<adi|home>	or mac :)
<webmind_>	url maybe in topic ?
<webmind_>	linux
<webmind_>	and windows :)
<webmind_>	running linux but have as vnc session to a win box
<adi|home>	ahh... if you want i can send you a binary for the simulator
<adi|home>	for linux
<adi|home>	ill fix the link
<webmind_>	uhm
<webmind_>	sure
<webmind_>	cant i just get form the site ?
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<adi|home>	sure ya can...
<adi|home>	just wasnt sure if you did or not ;)
<webmind_>	hmm thnx
<adi|home>	no rush
<adi|home>	do you have a recorder or player?
<webmind_>	btw ur forgetting a "/" ;)
<webmind_>	player
<adi|home>	no im not...
<adi|home>	you shouldn't need it... 
<webmind_>	shouldn't need it
<Tumm>	hehe
<Tumm>	slashdot... not bad :)
<webmind_>	but doesnt always work
<webmind_>	and rfc sez u should :)
<adi|home>	heheheh 
<adi|home>	fine.. be annoying ;)
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<adi|home>	hey Tumm 
<webmind_>	cewl :)
<adi|home>	yup.. and freshmeat.. we're proud ;)
<Bagder>	announcing everywhere! ;-)
<Tumm>	seen anything of the slashdot effect yet?
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<webmind_>	uhm
<webmind_>	mind if i give some comment on the player sim ?
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<adi|home>	sure.. 
<adi|home>	always looking for comments
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<adi|home>	even mail to the list if you wish
<webmind_>	ah.. wrong argument gives more info then -help (gives version only)
<webmind_>	and when i just start it.. it dies emediatly
<adi|home>	hmm?
<adi|home>	oh, you mean on the configure?
<webmind_>	what configure ?
<adi|home>	i dont understand what you mean about the help file?
<adi|home>	or help.
<webmind_>	when u start the simulator
<webmind_>	u just get the argument
<webmind_>	when u do: player -help
<webmind_>	u just get the version
<adi|home>	right it doesn't take any arguments
<adi|home>	its simulating the firmware
<adi|home>	firmware doesn't take args
<webmind_>	when u give a wrong argument like player --help it gives a list of possible arguments
<webmind_>	that's not what it tells me :)
<adi|home>	hmm.. that must be recent.. hadn't noticed
<webmind_>	rockboxui 0.1
<webmind_>	           eXcellent GUI
<webmind_>	Unrecognised option: --help
<webmind_>	Options include: -root, -window, -mono, -install, -noinstall, 
<webmind_>	                 -visual <arg>, -window-id <arg>, -server <arg>, -help.
<adi|home>	OHHH..
<adi|home>	i know why
<webmind_>	that :)
<adi|home>	its not the sim
<webmind_>	sorry for the paste
<adi|home>	its the X files
<adi|home>	we did a hack and slash off of another X interface
<adi|home>	so we could get the gui stuff going
<webmind_>	uhm k
<adi|home>	ill see if i can fix that
<webmind_>	this what it said under player simulator
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<adi|home>	okay.. it no longer takes args...
<adi|home>	it tells you not to use them if you try, then it exits
<adi|home>	okay.. now about your exit problem...
<adi|home>	you need to create a dir called 'archos'
<adi|home>	its treated as the root dir
<adi|home>	try this, download the daily tarball
<adi|home>	untar it
<adi|home>	cd into tools
<adi|home>	and run the configuration file
<adi|home>	that should set up everything you need
<Bagder>	or just do 'mkdir builddir; cd builddir; ../tools/configure; make'
<adi|home>	yuppers
*	adi|home heads off to bed and fall asleep to soccer
<adi|home>	god i love world cup time :)
<Bagder>	night adi
<webmind_>	bye
<webmind_>	hmm
<webmind_>	where can i download tetris ?
<adi|home>	you don't have to...
<adi|home>	compile for the recorder
<adi|home>	its part of the sim
<webmind_>	not for player ?
<Bagder>	tetris for the player would be slightly limited
<webmind_>	damn
<webmind_>	to small a screen ?
<Bagder>	to small, and not flexible enough
<webmind_>	hmm damn
<adi|home>	basicallly.. the player only has 2 lines
<adi|home>	the recorder has much more flexibility
<webmind_>	damnit
<webmind_>	awell
<webmind_>	toobad
<webmind_>	have fix a gameboy then
<webmind_>	:)
<adi|home>	or buy a recorder ;)
<webmind_>	gameboy somewhat cheaper :)
<adi|home>	recorder much mroe fun ;)
<webmind_>	hmm
<webmind_>	no cash for that
<Bagder>	http://storebror.haxx.se/nonstop/
<Bagder>	first basic test
<Bagder>	I'd say very basic
<adi|home>	what are you trying to do?
<Bagder>	build for all platforms when changes are made to CVS
<Bagder>	to verify the builds
<adi|home>	got ya
<Bagder>	too often some casual change a build that the person who did the change didn't test
<Bagder>	hm, weirdly put but I guess you understand ;-)
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<Linus>	hi guys!
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<Zagor>	hey guys
<Linus>	yo Zagor!
<Zagor>	seems the web site survived slashdot
<Linus>	but not the SSH server...?
<Zagor>	that was the silly lids bugging
<Linus>	ah ok
<Zagor>	fixed now
<Zagor>	we got a flood of new mail list subscriptions too :)
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<Bagder>	rehi
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<edx>	yo
<Bagder>	hey edx
<Zagor>	hi bagder
<Zagor>	edx!
<edx>	im at school currently.. :(
<Zagor>	i wonder if anyone got booted to the web mirror
<Bagder>	Zagor: check my initial attempt: http://storebror.haxx.se/nonstop/
<edx>	zagor.. you have any information about how many ppl have been on the page yet :)
<Zagor>	apparently we didn't suffer too badly anyway
<Zagor>	edx: i'll do a log analysis later
<edx>	ok hehe
<edx>	.. it doesnt stay too long on the front page of slashdot, does it?
<Zagor>	Bagder: ah, nice
<Zagor>	edx: no. a day, maybe two
<Bagder>	Zagor: it isn't automatic yet or anything, but the basic scripts seem to be working
<edx>	bagder: recorder simulator (win32) version is missing heh
<Zagor>	we're 131 people on the list now
<Bagder>	edx: when you have that buildable on my linux box, I'll add it ;-)
<edx>	bah :P
<edx>	use vmware or something lol
<Bagder>	I'll build 9 different combinations
<edx>	yeez.. one min till class starts.. :/
<edx>	later.
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<Bagder>	http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=33624&cid=3636700
<Bagder>	fine comment 
<Zagor>	yup. i'm going through all comments, replying to some of them
<Bagder>	way to go
<Zagor>	there, the most frequently comments adressed
<Zagor>	we should add a FAQ about DMCA...
<Bagder>	yes
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<Zagor>	hi ChrisJ
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<edx|class>	yo
<Linus>	yo
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<Zagor>	hehe
<Bagder>	you scared him off!
<Zagor>	so linus, when will you fix me up a serial port for my recorder? :)
<edx|class>	still in class :/
*	Zagor is very scary
<edx|class>	lol ill have irc running during class heh - teachers wont get it anyways
<edx|class>	(just cant chat so its no use lol)
<Bagder>	edx|class: you can read when we chat about you ;-)
<edx|class>	hmm number of ppl in irc increased :)
<Linus>	Well Zagor. Why me? :-)
<Bagder>	Linus: you are the chosen one
<Zagor>	Linus: because you're our solder slave
*	Linus feels special
<edx|class>	:P
*	edx|class needs a slave as well
<dwihno>	Linus: How far away is a mp3 decoder for the recorder series? :)
*	Bagder kneels in front of the solder slave
<Zagor>	dwihno: heh, we definitely need gdb first...
<Linus>	dwihno: It's only about 100% left
<edx|class>	.. teacher's back in a sek.. *bye*
<dwihno>	Linus: Yay! :D So it's started! :D
<Bagder>	haha
<Linus>	Have we heard of any bugs yet?
*	Bagder hasn't
<Zagor>	nope
<Zagor>	what, would we write bugging code? *offended*
<dwihno>	ata: -5
<dwihno>	I rest my case ;)
<Zagor>	i'd like to get people to try some songs they get skips on
<Zagor>	dwihno: well, that's not released. it doesn't count :)
<dwihno>	Zagor: now you're making exceptions! :)
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<dwihno>	Oh no!
<dwihno>	Poor Zagor
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<Zagor>	whoops, killed the wrong xterm :)
<Linus>	Linux newbie
<Zagor>	haha
<Bagder>	hehe
<Bagder>	more more!
<Linus>	Zagor: I managed to compile 2.4.19-pre9 on my new A7V333 yesterday
<Linus>	Zooooooooom!
<Zagor>	Linus: neato
<Linus>	Runs like the wind
<Linus>	But man, it takes forever to compile wit PIO on the hard drive
<Linus>	And all those compiling errors...
<Zagor>	compile errors?
<Linus>	I guess pre9 is somewhat on the edge
<Linus>	Yeah. Some of the drivers didn't compile at all
<Linus>	Like the Texas 1394 driver
<Bagder>	that's neat.... eh. not
<dwihno>	Texas 1x2 driver
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*	Bagder thinks we have a "most people in channel ever record"
<Zagor>	heh, yeah
*	dwihno is pretty pissed off
<dwihno>	My $130 headphones are fux0ring!
*	Bagder tried the nonstop script after Linus fix
<Bagder>	worked nicely
<Linus>	c00l
<Bagder>	I check for differences in the CVS/Entries files after a cvs update
<Bagder>	if there are, I rebuild all 
<Linus>	Nice
<Linus>	Tinderbox?
<Bagder>	homebrewed tinderbox ;-)
<Bagder>	the real thing seems a bit more complicated
<Zagor>	thunderbox?
<Linus>	:-)
<Bagder>	lunchbox
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<Zagor>	Linus: why did you move NUM_TICK_TASKS to the header file?
<Linus>	Because I felt that it belonged there
<Zagor>	but it's only used in the .c file, right?
<Linus>	yes, but the max number of allowed tasks should be public info...or?
<Zagor>	oh, that's what it is? not exactly obvious from the name :)
<Linus>	I can change it to MAX_NUM_TICK_TASKS
<Zagor>	no problem, i was just curious
<Linus>	CVS through an SSH tunnel through an HTTP proxy rocks! :-)
<Bagder>	well isn't it cvs through ssh through ssh through http proxy? ;-)
<Linus>	yeah
<Linus>	I think that the ID3 parsing should be done by the MPEG thread.
<Bagder>	I think so too
<Linus>	At least the parsing of the songs we're playing
<Bagder>	yeah
<Bagder>	there migth be reasons to do out "on demand" too at times of course
<Bagder>	to do it
<Linus>	yup.
<Linus>	So we need to make it reentrant... :-(
<Bagder>	argh
<Linus>	agreed
<Bagder>	nah, why?
<Bagder>	we just won't yield() in it
<Linus>	we yield in the ATA code
<Bagder>	ah
<Linus>	it bites
<Bagder>	say no more ;-)
<Bagder>	http://daniel.haxx.se/rockbox-auto/
<Linus>	Bagder: can you make it your mission to fix the ID3 code?
<Bagder>	yessir!
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<Bagder>	the auto page is now running
<Bagder>	let's hope it works too ;-)
<Zagor>	i'll add it to the daily page
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<jedix>	hi
<Zagor>	hi
<Bagder>	hey ho
<Bagder>	Zagor: you can wait a little first to allow me to smoothen out the early quirks
<Zagor>	ok
<Bagder>	it now checks for CVS differences every hour
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<jedix>	how much do these things run ya?
<Zagor>	price, you mean?
<jedix>	yeah
<Zagor>	about $250 for the base model, I think. $350 for the top model
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<jedix>	thats usd?
<Bagder>	yeps
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<jedix>	I see, hows the play time?
<Bagder>	~10 hours on the standard batteries
<jedix>	thats good, en?
<jedix>	how big are they?
<Bagder>	disk size?
<Bagder>	or just measures?
<jedix>	measures
<jedix>	its 20gb, right?
<Bagder>	the biggest factory delivered disk size is 20GB yes
<jedix>	I was thinking of getting an ipod, but my linux enviro. probably won't go over well..
<Zagor>	115x83x34mm (4.5 x 4.2 x 1.3")
<jedix>	and I'd have to get a firewire port
<Zagor>	the biggest model is 20GB, but you can replace the disk with up to 60 GB
<Bagder>	usb2, no firewire
<Bagder>	ah
*	Bagder doesn't read, only speak :-P
<jedix>	so this is looking better :)
<Zagor>	I recommend the recorder20, it's the best model
<jedix>	plus your hacks are very interesting..
<Zagor>	look here for a comparison: http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/devcon/show.cgi?img4083.jpg
<dwihno>	recorder20 ownz
<jimperson>	does anyone use an fm transmitter for listening in the car? does it work well?
<Zagor>	i've read people use it successfully, haven't tried it myself
<jimperson>	http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?code=5403-SFMX
<jimperson>	here's one i'm lookin' at
<jedix>	so they need a heafty pocket to fit into.. do they use a normal ide hdd?
<Zagor>	looks fine to me. :) i have no experience with FM transmitters, though
<Zagor>	jedix: normal laptop 2.5" hdd, yes
<Zagor>	9.5mm height
<jedix>	sweet
<jedix>	jimperson: is that the actual size?
<Linus>	But definitely not a device for a skiing trip.
<jedix>	why is that?\
<jimperson>	ya know im not sure
<Linus>	The HD is somewhat shock sensitive
<Zagor>	well it has moving parts, so if you bump it around too much it will skip
<jedix>	really? so its not shock proof?
<Bagder>	if you'd wrap a *huuuge* pillow around the archos ;-)
<Linus>	or swallow it
<Zagor>	no hd players are really shock proof
<jedix>	2mb buffer isn't enough?
<Bagder>	I don't think they're talking about the buffering
<Zagor>	it depends on how rough you treat it
<jimperson>	is there an effective carrying case that would, say strap to my arm for jogging?
<Linus>	If you drop it while it is spinning, i guess you could even damage it...
<Linus>	I think it weighs too much for jogging
<Zagor>	jimperson: the included case only has a belt strap
<jedix>	yeah, if I run with it, will it skip?
<jedix>	Linus: more of a work out then :)
<jimperson>	which begs the question, how much does it weigh :)
<Zagor>	hard to say. I mountain bike with mine and only get rare skips 
<Linus>	yes, if you have it in the belt strap
<Zagor>	http://www.archos.com/us/products/product_jbrecorders.html
<Linus>	I run with it to catch the train
<jedix>	I hope I can find one in ottawa
<Linus>	and it skips if i have it in the belt strap
<dwihno>	Mine has never skipped
<Linus>	because the belt strap is loose
<jedix>	Linus: and your arms are.. a) as big as twigs b) steal gurders c) the train itself
<dwihno>	I always keep it in my special handthingy when I run
<jimperson>	aha! a custom special handthingy! exactly what i need :)
<Linus>	jedix: they are huge! :-)
<Linus>	as are all hacker arms
*	Zagor tries not to laugh
*	Bagder giggles as he can't resist
*	jedix runs to the bathroom to not piss himself
<jedix>	I think i'll get one for the hackability of it..
<jimperson>	she was so impressed by my special handthingy she could hardly contain herself
<Bagder>	jedix: that's what I did ;-)
<dwihno>	:)
<jedix>	work==boardom this workterm
<Linus>	I have two
<Zagor>	oooh, a contest!
<dwihno>	I made it myself (the handthingy)
<Linus>	Zagor has three
<Zagor>	i have three :)
<jimperson>	you gots pics of your handthingy?
<dwihno>	jimperson: no, but I'll fix0r :)
<elinenbe>	who was here talking about ROLO?
<jedix>	what does your firmware do right now?
<jimperson>	rolo? you mean lamont's friend from sanford and son?
<Linus>	jedix: it plays pm3's
<Linus>	mp3's
<Bagder>	and shows id3
<dwihno>	It also plays tetris
<dwihno>	(very important feature)
<Linus>	and says "rockbox" when you start it :-)
<jedix>	sweet
<Zagor>	dwihno: only the simulator right now
<elinenbe>	edx and I were talking last night, and what you can do is load a small ROLO firmware, and then have that load an uncompressed larger firmware.. this would reduce the boot up time
<dwihno>	Yeah, that must not be forgotten
<dwihno>	Zagor: OMG!
<jedix>	so its all the support the player has before the firmware change?
<Bagder>	elinenbe: yeps
<Zagor>	elinenbe: yes
<dwihno>	I think I'll start mass-producing the handthingy and get rich
<dwihno>	The design is really smart
<jedix>	dwihno: thats how I passed calc1-3
<elinenbe>	even the 5-10 second start up time feels kind of long.
<jimperson>	hey man, i would buy one. i believe handthingy.com is available...
<jedix>	dwihno: catchy name too.. handthingy.
<Bagder>	hehe
<Zagor>	elinenbe: 90% of the startup time is the Archos ROM firmware, not Rockbox
<dwihno>	Then I'll start the production in taiwan and hire youngsters to cut the salaries and get rich and fat
<elinenbe>	well,  that can not be changed now, can it?
<jimperson>	you could open your own sweatshop and mass produce them with cheap illegal immigrant labor...
<Linus>	elinenbe: not easily
<elinenbe>	I see.
<jedix>	i'm going to get myself a snack
<jedix>	brb
<jimperson>	mmm.. snak
<Zagor>	elinenbe: that would require flashing it, which is a whole new ballgame
<Bagder>	flashing this kind of things feels... well, a bit like pushing our luck ;-)
<elinenbe>	yes it is.
<elinenbe>	well, someday a rolo loader will be flashed, and then it will load our custom firmware.
<Bagder>	though I bet dwihno would be first in line for doing it :-)
<Linus>	:-)
<elinenbe>	if something went wrong there... goodbye jukebox.
<Bagder>	we'll let Björn do the testing, he has the largest amount of units ;-)
<Zagor>	hehe
<jimperson>	how is the download speed to the archos over usb?
*	Bagder whispers "usb2 rocks"
<jimperson>	yeah but i dont have usb2 on my powerbook
<Linus>	roughly 1mb/sec
<dwihno>	Bagder: How fast are the transfers?
<dwihno>	TO ALL YOUR HEADS... BLAST THE SPEAKERS!
<Bagder>	dwihno: I haven't actually measured
<Zagor>	with usb2 it's 4-8 MB/s
<dwihno>	Whoa
<dwihno>	Fucking amazing :)
<dwihno>	USB1 is good enough for me
<dwihno>	(until USB2 is standard, that is)
<Zagor>	that speed is limited by the archos, not usb2
<Linus>	Zagor: have you measured on a Windows machine?
<dwihno>	mkay
<dwihno>	good enough for me ;)
<Zagor>	Linus: no, i have never used my archoses with windows
<dwihno>	is it the disk speed or some interface which is setting the limit?
<Zagor>	dwihno: i'm not sure
<Linus>	I mean if the Linux USB implementation slows it down...
<Zagor>	could be either
<Linus>	dwihno: the ISD300 chipo ises PIO
<Linus>	uses
<Zagor>	Linus: that's possible, but I doubt you can get much above 10MB/s anyway
<Linus>	Probably not
<Bagder>	Zagor/Linus: my windows tests showed ~4 MB/s
<Linus>	lame
<Linus>	I must try it tonight
<Bagder>	some 15GB in about on hour
<Linus>	but do not try it on batteries...
<dwihno>	Linus: Hmm, PIO is no good
<Bagder>	not measured exactly so give or take a bunch 
<Linus>	dwihno: nope. But cheap
<dwihno>	True, true.
<dwihno>	We need some boot sounds too! :)
<dwihno>	Like some squeaky noise or something
<Zagor>	yeah, startup sound! wooooo :)
<dwihno>	Yeah!!! :D
<Zagor>	maybe we can ask Rolling Stones if they'll let us use one of their songs? ;)
<dwihno>	Hey, why is the startup-time for the archos so long? :)
<Linus>	Who wants to work on the sound effects for tetris?
<Zagor>	good question. it does a lot of disk scratching for very little apparent reason
<Linus>	dwihno: the recorder startup time is a pain
<Linus>	but the player is pretty short
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<Linus>	hey Kaze!
<jedix>	oh, now to find a place to buy one of these things..
<Linus>	go! go! go!
<Kaze>	oh sorry.. hi
<Linus>	Zagor: I guess the SPDIF is the way to go for the debugging port...?
<Zagor>	yep
<Linus>	I think I'll try that ASAP
<Zagor>	goodie
<Linus>	(ASAP means "maybe this month" :-)
<Zagor>	haha
<jedix>	damn, how can I search the net for a store with this?
<Zagor>	good question
<Kaze>	use... a search engine perhaps? :p
<Linus>	i search and search, and all i find is this damn Rockbox page...
<Zagor>	http://www.archos.com/us/archos_reseller.html
<jedix>	Kaze: didn't work too well
<Zagor>	jedix: is none of the listed ok?
<jedix>	Zagor: thanks, I'm there now
<Bagder>	http://www.funmp3players.com/ sells them too
<jimperson>	so $299 is pretty much the standard price on these eh?
<jimperson>	the 20 that is...
<Bagder>	seems so
<Zagor>	i think so, yes
<jedix>	i was at a place that only sold 6gbs and it was 350
<Zagor>	ouch!
<dwihno>	yeah, that was expensive!
<Zagor>	make sure you get a Recorder20 and not just a recorder with 20 gig disk.
<Zagor>	only the model called Recorder20 has usb2, the others have usb1.1
<Linus>	only the recorder20 has usb2.0
<Zagor>	it appears funmp3players sell upgraded recorders too, so make sure what you get before you order
<Linus>	Zagor: which reminds me...has anyone tried the Rockbox recorder firmware on a usb1.1 recorder???
<Zagor>	i don
<Zagor>	't know
<Zagor>	it would indeed be interesting
<Bagder>	hardly anyone has tried that, so I'd guess not
<Linus>	I can't blame them... :-)
<jedix>	$549.99 Archos Jukebox Studio Recorder 20 (thats canadian)
<Bagder>	do we even know anyone with such a device?
<jedix>	jebus thats high
<Zagor>	what
<Zagor>	's the can/usb rate?
<Zagor>	usd even :)
<Linus>	Bagder: we can fool jedix into buying one
<jedix>	usd == 336
<Bagder>	can/usb rates just has gotta be bus related ;-)
<Zagor>	hehe. gotta be 1:12 then
<Linus>	Bagder: you're a funny guy! :-)
<jedix>	Linus: what such device is this?
*	Bagder grins
<Linus>	jedix: a USB1.1 recorder
<jedix>	....
<Bagder>	we could ask on the list to see if we can find anyone
<Linus>	good idea
<jedix>	Archos Recorder 20 on sale this week only for $299 with free shipping*
<Zagor>	jedix: there are many models of archos jukebox: Archos Jukebox 5000, 6000, Studio 10, Studio 20, Recorder, Recorder 10 and Recorder 20
<Zagor>	jedix: sounds like an excellent offer
<jedix>	that has to be canadian
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<jedix>	Zagor: yeah, I hear the recorder 20 is the best
<Zagor>	yup
<jedix>	linux compatable?
<Bagder>	yes
<Bagder>	usb2 needs an extra patch though
<jedix>	then why the hell don't I have one?
<Zagor>	hehe
<Hadaka>	not too many motherboards come with usb 2.0 these days :(
<Bagder>	just buy a separate usb2 card
<Linus>	Hadaka: kt333
<Zagor>	they are just now starting to put usb2 in new motherboard chipset
<Zagor>	i wonder what took them so long :(
<Hadaka>	yeah well it's not like I'm buying a new motherboard anytime soon
<Linus>	A separate USB2.0 card works fine
<Zagor>	no, me neither. but I got myself a plugin card. it's worth it.
<jedix>	Canadian Residents add 7% GST Ontario Residents add 8% PST
<jedix>	damnit
<jedix>	i'm in ontario
<Linus>	tough luck
<jedix>	you don't need usb2
<jedix>	you can use 1.1
<Hadaka>	yeah, I'm living well enough with usb1.1 for now
<Zagor>	yeah, but waiting for transfers gets boring fast
<jedix>	it will be a bit slower
<jedix>	how slow is it?
<Linus>	"a bit"
<Linus>	1 mb/sec
<Zagor>	1.1 is 700-1000 kb/s, usb2 is 4-8 MB/s
<Hadaka>	well the thing that bothers me most is the waiting for the disk to spin up between all sorts of actions
<jedix>	Zagor: bits?
<Zagor>	yeah, we have a couple of ideas to avoid some of that
<Zagor>	jedix: bytes
<jedix>	kB
<Linus>	but it's something you'll have to live with
<Hadaka>	err, in USB mode?
<Linus>	the hard drive sucks batteries
<jedix>	thats not bad at all
<Zagor>	Hadaka: your disk spins down in usb mode?
<jedix>	Linus: ~10h playback though, right?
<Linus>	jedix: yup
<Hadaka>	well I'd say so, yes - I can hear it spinning up when I start reading
<Zagor>	strange. for me it spins constantly.
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<Hadaka>	I've got 1.24 firmware in the flash rom for me
<Zagor>	same here
<Hadaka>	ok have to check it at home again to see if it really does that
<Zagor>	ok
<Hadaka>	think my work machine is compiled against the wrong UHCI driver - getting lockups with transfers
<Linus>	ouch!
<Zagor>	ah, that's no fun
<Hadaka>	happened with my laptop too - then I changed the driver
<Hadaka>	and managed to get one directory of unremovable junk on the disk
<Hadaka>	though I suppose that's fixable with reformatting - can you do that in linux or do you have to use windows for that?
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<Zagor>	you can do that in linux
<Zagor>	it's just like any other scsi device
<Hadaka>	I remember seeing some weird FAT restoration utility way back - that's not necessary then these days or?
<Zagor>	umm, well I don't have it anyway :)
<Hadaka>	you've don mkfs.vfat on the archos from linux?
<Zagor>	yup
<Hadaka>	oh goodie, then I dare to try
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<Linus>	hey Jigsta
<Jigsta>	Hi Linus
<Bagder>	heh, that auto build worked crap on the first automatic run ;-)
<Zagor>	hehe
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<Jigsta>	Just stumbeled accross your sourceforge page, sounds like a nice project
<Zagor>	well, we like it :)
<Bagder>	a nice project it is
<Jigsta>	:o)
*	Bagder does the yoda talk
<Zagor>	the yoda talk, bagder does
*	Bagder chuckles
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<jedix>	so, what is the firmware coded in?
<Linus>	C
<jedix>	really? I was expecting some sort of assembly
<Zagor>	some assembly required :)
<jedix>	why type of assembly?
<Zagor>	sh-1
<Zagor>	for the startup code, setting vector table, stack pointer and such things
<Bagder>	and the thread switch
<Zagor>	yes
<jedix>	oh, I haven't done any sh-1
<Bagder>	a perfect opportunity! ;-)
<Zagor>	you don't need it. all application code is C
<jedix>	I have C expierence.. but who doesn't ;)
<Hadaka>	is the hd access blocking right now btw?
<jedix>	what fs is the hdd?
<Zagor>	Hadaka: yes
<Zagor>	jedix: fat32
<Bagder>	plain old silly fat32
<Hadaka>	hm, the main annoyance in the UI is the blocking operations (the archos firmware ui that is)
<Zagor>	it's rather adequate for this kind of use, though
<Zagor>	Hadaka: yeah, but we've got threading. so blocking I/O is not a real problem
<Hadaka>	Zagor: but don't the threads have to yield? or do they do that in the I/O code?
<Linus>	the I/O code yields
<Zagor>	yup
<Hadaka>	so other threads run while the hd spins up? goooodie
<Zagor>	yep
<Linus>	one of our goals is to make our firmware more "snappy" than the original
*	Bagder spots Linus' last-mp3-byte fix ;-)
<Zagor>	funny noone complained about that :)
<Bagder>	haha
<Bagder>	yeah
<jedix>	snappy?
<Bagder>	don't everyone spend hours and hours running our software and listen carefully at the ends of songs? ;-)
<Zagor>	jedix: responsive
<Jigsta>	Hmm. Off to have a play :) cheers guys.
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<jedix>	last-mp3-byte fix?
<Linus>	It could truncate the last byte of a sing
<Bagder>	we have a cvs-commit mailing list
<Linus>	song
<Linus>	if the length was odd
<Bagder>	gotta run, see ya
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<Hadaka>	how much does the recorder 20 have ram? 1mb?
<Zagor>	2MB
<Linus>	2mb
<Linus>	All devices have the same amount
<Hadaka>	hm, that machine seems like quite nice to code for
<Zagor>	yeah, it's not bad
<Linus>	fun indeed
<Hadaka>	especially with the gdb on serial :P
<jedix>	what type of mp3 does it support?
<Zagor>	all types
<jedix>	320kbps? vbr?
<Linus>	that one was also fun to code
<Linus>	jedix: yes
<jedix>	cool
<Hadaka>	Ooo, RTC
<Zagor>	yeps
<Linus>	we don't have any drivers for it yet though
<jedix>	what does the player origionally support?
<Linus>	jedix: you mean bitrates and such?
<jedix>	yeah
<Linus>	the same
<Hadaka>	now all we need is a rocking microkernel :P
<Zagor>	although people keep saying it skips on high bitrates
<Linus>	jedix: but some people say that the original firmware has troubla playing 320kbps
<jedix>	some guy on /. said that it only supports the common bitrates
<Zagor>	never trust /. :)
<Zagor>	I have personally tested Rockbox with 256 and 320 kbit
<Hadaka>	hm, there probably is nothing in the style of an MMU is there?
<Zagor>	no
<Linus>	Gotta go now! CU guys!
<Hadaka>	oh well, one can't have everything
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<Zagor>	we don't really need it
<jedix>	!? no recorder support
<Zagor>	not in 1.0, no
<Hadaka>	well true - but a microkernel could use it for memory protection - and swapping is easier to achieve too
<Zagor>	we haven't finished all drivers for recorder yet
<jedix>	how long until then?
<jedix>	42?
<Zagor>	hard to say. a few weeks perhaps. we don't know exactly why it doesn't work.
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<checkeetout>	Howdy!
<checkeetout>	Anyone feel like fielding a quick question about the Rockbox project?
<Zagor>	sure
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<checkeetout>	hellllllooooooooo!
<checkeetout>	Anyone out there?
<Zagor>	yes, ask your question
<checkeetout>	thanks
<checkeetout>	:)
<checkeetout>	I was just checking out the Rockbox project and it looks pretty cool
<checkeetout>	I just want to make sure I'll still be able to access my jukebox from Windows XP if I install this new firmware
<checkeetout>	I use it a lot to carry files home from work to work on at home
<Zagor>	yes, the firmware does not affect the usb mode
<checkeetout>	Excellent
<checkeetout>	:)
<checkeetout>	thanks for the info :)
<Zagor>	no problem
<checkeetout>	I'm going to go download it now
<Zagor>	have fun
<Zagor>	i'm off to a meeting
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