**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun May 19 13:32:37 2002 --> adi|home (~adiamas@as5300-9.216-194-23-128.nyc.ny.metconnect.net) has joined #rockbox --- Topic for #rockbox is Does your box rock? http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/ --- Topic for #rockbox set by Bagder at Mon May 13 04:46:28 --> pippoblu (pippoblu@TVT-CaTV-dhcp-45-101.urbanet.ch) has joined #rockbox <-- pippoblu (pippoblu@TVT-CaTV-dhcp-45-101.urbanet.ch) has left #rockbox --> [TDM]Mr_B|away (~nx_2000@ip68-0-62-70.no.no.cox.net) has joined #rockbox --- [TDM]Mr_B|away is now known as [TDM]Mr_B <-- [TDM]Mr_B has quit () --> wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox <-- wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has left #rockbox --> elinenbe (elinenbe@adder.engin.umich.edu) has joined #rockbox --- Tumm is now known as tumm hello there --> martin__ (~martin@pD9E7A37E.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox <-- martin__ (~martin@pD9E7A37E.dip.t-dialin.net) has left #rockbox ("Client Exiting") <-- elinenbe has quit ("Leaving") --- tumm is now known as Tumm --> Zagor (~bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox --> fall3 (~francis@nas-cbv-9-62-147-161-190.dial.proxad.net) has joined #rockbox hi fall3 hi <-- fall3 (~francis@nas-cbv-9-62-147-161-190.dial.proxad.net) has left #rockbox ("Fermeture du client") ack!!! ppl... make them leave!!!! haha did the changes i made to the rockbox make sense? btw oh.. and none of them were reflected on the windows side... the credit stuff? or do you mean the archos dir? my !"#$%&/(/&%$# display seems broken :-( nothing i do works <-- Zagor has quit ("bye") * adi|home nods knowingly --> motiv01 (~trillian@sdn-ar-001ncraleP018.dialsprint.net) has joined #rockbox <-- motiv01 (~trillian@sdn-ar-001ncraleP018.dialsprint.net) has left #rockbox --- dw|gone is now known as dwihno --> Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox HELLÖ! :D * dwihno vinkar --> calpefrosch|work (~calpefros@62.52.174.30) has joined #rockbox morning morning Höj höj I sold one of my computers last night So now I got to spend my money on archos stuff ,D cool yup * Bagder drowns in his email flow * dwihno sends some more mail to Bagder 10: print "hello" 20: goto 10 ack!!! <-- calpefrosch|work has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) ppl here... no.. ppl arent allowed here... hey adiamas its been _my_ room for like 3 days... GO AWAY!!!!! hehe this is _my_ room!!!! heheh * Bagder boos have you seen the credits list on the uisim? I saw the code on the cvs list, that's all yet would work fine if i wern' for you sweds and your funny looking letters ah right Björn should change his name ;-) damn right... don't see me interjecting cyrillic letters in my name do ya? not yet ;-) as an exampel :) that and i fixed the splash sceen a bit you know.. really "useful" stuff.. --> Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox --- Zagor_ is now known as Zagor Dr. Zagmaster! woo there we should make the credits scroll hey Zagor The splash screen should be configurable - think about ppl wanting a quick startup nah.. ppl deal with the spash screen now.. while the firmware is "loading" spending precious CPU cycles with scrollers?! :-D and im sorry.. if you in a such a rush you can't wait 200 milliseconds.. Do you realize the insanity!? :) yes! 200 msec's is 195 too many! hehehe and fortanetly... 100 milliseconds faster then most of us think ;) http://www.hackles.org/cgi-bin/archives.pl?request=166 Zagor: did you run the app on target ? i tried, but I think my screen is broken :-( :-( asch * dwihno sends Zagor some karlssons klister You can fix just about everything with that goo! it works fine, the debug output tells me :-) hehe See, the glue fixed it! Never underestimate the power of the Karlsson side! Zagor: so we basicly need to add Linus' mpeg thread to have a v1? yup kewlness can the uisim play music yet? on linux, it should be able to I haven't tried cause i was just thinking.. it might be perversly cool to realase the uisim evenutally as another mp3 player front end :) haha hahaha * adi|home wonders if that was good or bad laughter perverse it is hell... least ppl could play tetris while listening ;) very very tiny tetris well.. we offer it to 3 years olds... their very very tiny ppl did we ever find out if there is a specific reason you can't use the remote control witht he recorders? you can i do i guess the earliest firmware versions simply didn't listen to the serial port. current versions do. cool remote control(?) there's a wire remote you plug into the headphone jack. it's an extra accessory cool does it come with the basic set or do you have to order some extra widgets? eww <-- smells like a dog all over the hands extra stupid dog, running around licking my hand it comes with the "travel kit", for some reason well.. first tme i saw this ver 1.21d "Implemented improved SCMS* (Serial Copyright Management System), Fixed bugs within SCMS, which caused errors when encoding from digital source." Should I get the travel kit? nah i never use the remote except for testing no you should get the travel kit instead adi|home: the SCMS can be disabled in software or what? and will we be implimenting it? * adi|home prepares to slap zagor "Serial Copyright Management System"? Sounds fishy adi|home: SCMS is software only, as far as I understand so we just won't have it * adi|home cheers wildly Why does the recorder store the streams in VBR btw? someday.. when i can afford to buy congressmen too.. im going to repeal the DMCA I guess you gurus might have the answer to that question ;D dwihno: the encoder chip only supports VBR Zagor: ah, okay... actually, VBR is in some ways a simpler MP3 than CBR. due to avoiding the use of "bit resevoirs" Simple answer to simple questions :) so.. seeing as i have more time this week... --> Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox how close to the jbr do we want the interface to be? wb Linus yo! and if you could have me work on any higher level stuff.. what would it be? adi|home: we'll make two separate interfaces, so make it as close as you like adiamas: we could use some code for dealing with playlists I mean, edit, add, delete etc nod have we implimented unlink() yet? we have no write support enabled at the moment as for the 999 playlist limit on the players... do we know if there is a specific reason for i? we can't think of any :) thats fine.. i can prob code around it.. ghost funcitons etc why do you need unlink() ? delete? so if someone were to build current CVS firmware and apps for -DARCHOS_PLAYER=1 on both, and threw it on their player, should they expect it to do more than turn the red LED on? heh how else do you delete a file from inside the player? yes.. it should wipe your player and send me your credit card numbers :) ok, no there's no other way. PsycoXul: well, zagor believed it worked ;-) I want to wait with introducing disk writes for some time. It's a major risk. PsycoXul: did you try it? well thats what i got heh it didn't even get rid of the ROM firmware's splash screen !? zagor.. you see any prob with getting an unlink() working? we could test that safely adi|home: no problems really, but we need to test it exhaustively before letting it out in public thats a given... do we want editing/deleting to be a feature in v1? no okay.. then it goes on the back burner.. i can code around it for now... ill just display text saying "your file would normally be " :) hehe PsycoXul: that's interesting. i thought it was just my frankenstein's archos that didin't work. i'll try on linus' archos next. ok i have a small recommendation... the lcd code... wouldnt it make sense to have a Recorder version and a player version? with 90% of the player version just empty functions? this way we don't need all the #ifdefs all over the place? and just localize the #ifdefs to inside the lcd.[ch]? lots of the lcd #ifdefs is due to how the player simulator is working ? becuase it uses the recorder simulator's LCD functions right... and? I think adi is talking about #ifdefs in the application code, such as tree.c yeah ah, ok, I'll shut up ;-) #ifdef HAVE_LCD_BITMAP lcd_update(); #endif in the app code all over is just hideous so if we did lcd_update lcd_update(){} for player it's a good point. should we have the same API for both? and the real function for recorder actually, I added a dummy player lcd_update() yesterday... :) if not the same.. then very similar * adi|home saw that.. its what gave me the idea... i could test out the theory and see how it works/looks before i toss it up.. pass it off to you guys to play with .. so the question is: should we have a dummy lcd_setfont() lcd_setmargins() etc for the player too? yeah.. but i woulnd't even say "dummy" i would do this... void lcd_update() { #ifdef..... #else #endif } keep it localized wherever possible the functions that have to differ, well those take diff. args. let the compiler optimize all the crap out actually, I was thinking of doing the player stubs as empty macros so they're not even called i assumed that if a function was empty, and called, then the compiler would just optimize it out anyway yeah, i guess no they're in different files ah, right. so it can't know ahh.. so it still has to link it in? yes so Zag.. what did you mean about the macros.. what were you thinking? #ifdef PLAYER #define lcd_update() #else void lcd_update(void) { dodum(); } #endif or, uh no. i mean the header file not the implementation do I make sense? so in the header youd have like #ifdef PLAYER #define lcd_update() #else void lcd_update(void); #endif ? Just a quick question... Should I order something extra than the 'basic' recorder package? yes, that was my thought nah you can get what you need off ebay dwihno: no, I don't think so ah, okay dwihno: better headphones Then I'll place my order hmmm.. well.. only down side .. what about functions taht take arguements? Zagor: Already got that ;D yeah. i hate the ones that come with the recorder adi|home: #define lcd_setfont(__font__) ? wtf does __font__ become? it eats the argument it's just a declaration that eats the argument ah.. so just like #define lcd_setfont(x) it is for #define moo(x) poo(x) nods yes hehe was the __ that through me... thought i was missing something :) ah, well you can skip those well.. might i sugest then #define lcd_setfont(IgnoreMe) or something? or whatever hmm.. let me go play for a min sure * dwihno gets the bucket and shovel and follows adi to the playground bagder, linus: what's your opinion about this kind of shadow functions? I'm still not sure what I think. personally.. i think as long as we state we're doing it.. (in the docs) its a good idea it could get confusing and bug ridden, since bad code will still "work" on one of the two I think they're fine, as it makes modules that are shared for both LCDs more readable I didn't follow want i should explain linus? Is it about accepting a setfont() call on the Player? yes sorta Then I think it's dirty, but acceptable we are still early enough on the road that if we don't like it.. we can always switch back right It's a more cosmetically nice way than 102401 #ifdef's indeed nods and once the api is set in stone. life gets easier for others that want to work on the project "oh just use the api, it takes care of itself" is easier and nicer to say then "remember to #ifdef around everything" right, but people will still do mistakes since the player won't require lcd_update() but the recorder does Well, I don't like to say "set in stone" but I see what you mean. thats true... As long as we are not assimilated by borg, we just have to deal with those problems as those arise. what we could do is have all the #defines call one common funciton that prints it was called on debug shrugs the application code works on linus' archos, but not mine :-( Zagor: Hmm, fishy! Has he some HW mods that yours don't have? well my archos is a monster. it's a new cpu and an old lcd. PsycoXul: did you make sure the Makefile for both apps and firmware specified the right player version? Zagor: Have you raped your archos? oh yes :) You mad sadist! we wouldn't be at this point without ripping them apart and poking around Next time, get some photos while you're at it ;) you mean http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/internals/ isn't good enough? would it be "#defin lcd_update();" or #define lcd_update() ? semi-colon or not not Zagor: I want to see some pics of the user interface! :D <-- is a bit perverted, I know dwihno: there is no user interface to take pictures of yet. try the simulator yup... i have a really nice screen shot of my tic-tac-toe before my code disappeared :) Zagor: yes, i've got a studio 20 and i made sure they were both set to TARGET = -DARCHOS_PLAYER=1 hehe Zagor: Does it compile with mingw/32? :) dwihno: make it if not Yeah Sounds like a heap'o'fun Where do I start? get the code from CVS http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/cvs.html get the firmware, apps and uisimulator directories to compile the player version of the ui, not the recorder... whats the make commandline? 'make' :-) adjust the Makefile oh damn you... bloody hell :) *checking out* cool... but ya don't need to tell us ;) of course hehehe I don't have anything better to atm So I'll just pester you, great huh :) ? sounds wonderful :) okay.. bedtime niht all.. night adi nighty --> wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox hey wavey hi wav Is it possible to revert to older versions of the archos firmware without excessive fiddling? just copy the old file to the root dir ah I thought the newer versions would prevent this no Is the USB-PC communication code in the firmware? no it is beyond the firmware's control ah, okay... Might as well be :) * dwihno drools, today I'm gonna order myself the almighty archos :Õ~~~~~~~~~ dwihno: So we managed to convince you? the rockbox sales force :) We want commission from Archos Linus: Yeah, you did... I just hope I won't get disappointed when my unit arrives. I have extreme high hopes about this product well don't expect a miracle product. it does have flaws. it's just better than all the rest :) :) Do you think I will get satisified? The swedish magazine M3 recently had a review of a lame flash-based player with recording capapilities And can I trust the storage? I mean, I don't want the hardware to go bongo when I move all my music to it :) and they were ASTOUNDED that it actually cound record sound from the Line-In Bua! They are so lame! hm Journalists != techies I would rather say that Archos marketing has failed in Sweden and M3 are totally blindfolded -( )-( )- <-- blindness goggles don't trust the storage I always keep a mirror on my PC it doesn't fail easily, but never depend on something you keep in your pocket True. True. How many times has it failed you? never never okay Zagor: you had it for a year or so? Or is it just me being new in the scene? :) dwihno: about 18 months oh really strange I've never heard about the archos earlier. marketing failure, I presume exactly it's a small company, and Creative's weekly marketing budget dwarfs their yearly.. well, I do see the positive side - It's a non-hong kong product Never trust fishy hardware from hong kong well don't hope too much from archos. they're not "the good guys". You mean, the serial RIAA thingy? the build quality of the archos units are pretty poor but worth it in the long run no i just mean they are not a better company than anyone else wavey: in what way? does it feel way plastic or such? they are actually manufactured in China h hm Do they feel like they're gonna break apart any second? no no haha no! --- Linus is now known as Linus|lunch --- Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch dw: my unit keeps resetting because of bad contacts needs resoldering happened after a couple of months geez :/ there's webpages showing where to resolder, because it's not uncommon this is on a recorder bought in january okay I just hope I will get a flawless unit i love the device, but i wish it was built by sony Heh +$200 on the price tag :) alas yes ;) Soun would never build a harddrive-based player Sony They love their silly memory sticks too much --- Linus|lunch is now known as Linus --- Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor Memory-dick Yeah Expensive shit, just look at the price tags! It's probably in the same range as the recorder-20